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Questions and Answers - After reading the book [message #3875] |
Sat, 18 July 2020 10:47 |
Amonhi
Messages: 237 Registered: June 2010 Location: Las Vegas, NV.
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On another forum, the following question was asked and my answer...
"Robin Hood" post_id=1046581 time=1595061687 user_id=5502
I thought it was very well reasoned, and contained a lot of truth.
What I feel it lacked was an explanation of what Gethsemene and the cross was all about.
They explained the scapegoat principle very well, and the role played by Judas as Azarel, but have left me more than a little confused about Christ's role.
I don't get the connection between the two.
Could someone with a better brain then me explain?
Gethsemene:
Chapter 9: The Victim in Gethsemane
Chapter 10: Why Jesus Suffered and Died
- How Christ Gained the Right to Offer Mercy
- The Role of the Judge
- The Guilty/Criminal
- The Victim
Short Answer - Only the Victim of sin can offer mercy. To offer mercy, Jesus had to become the victim of our sins. In Gethsemane, Jesus took on the sins of the world as the victim of all our sins experiencing every hurt we cause others. "Whatsoever you have done to the least of these, ye have done to me." Only the victim can forgive sin, so Jesus became the victim of our sins so that he could forgive us. He also became the victim of sin so that he could know how to succor us and heal us as the victim. Whenever we hurt someone, we are hurting Christ. Whenever we are helping someone, we are helping Christ.
Quote:Matthew 25
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Why did Jesus Die:
Chapter 8: Early Lessons from Christ
- Why Christ Was Killed
Chapter 10: Why Jesus Suffered and Died
Short Answer - Because he was killed by the wicked who were trying to save themselves.
- High priest recognized his as the Savior and said
Quote:John 11
47 ¶ Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.
48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
53 Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.
- Wicked people killed him to save themselves.
- We also assent to his death to save ourselves and others, but by doing so become murderers in our heart like the Poor Preacher who was willing to kill Jesus to save his family's eternal life. Not realizing that if they assent to his death they also are murders in their hearts.
Quote:Quote from the book sharing and actual conversation:
Pastor X – He had to die… To save us all.
Elliaison Contributor – How far would you have gone to make sure that happened? If nobody else was willing to kill him because they believed what he taught, and you knew that you couldn’t be saved unless he died, would you have killed him to save your eternal soul?
Pastor X – …(almost crying)… Yes, I would kill him…
Elliaison Contributor – You would kill your own savior?
Pastor X – … Yes, I would kill him and do whatever it took to make sure he died on that cross…
Elliaison Contributor – …
Pastor X – … But I wouldn’t do it for my own eternal soul. I would kill him for my family, to save them…
Elliaison Contributor – You would actually murder the most innocent man to ever walk the earth to save your family, even if it meant that you would go to eternal hell?
Pastor X – … I would.
Elliaison Contributor – But if they agree with or support you or anyone else killing Christ, and intend to benefit or gain something from his death, doesn’t that make them an accomplice and morally responsible for the death of Christ?
Pastor X – …
Elliaison Contributor – Even now, aren’t you morally and spiritually an accomplice to Christ’s death because you support it, condone it and even demand it to the point that you would have killed him yourself if you had to. Doesn’t that place some of the moral and spiritual responsibility for his death on you in the same way that it would if you killed him and your family supported you in doing it?
Pastor X – … if so, then we are all responsible for the death of Christ. It would mean that anyone who hoped for salvation through Christ’s suffering and death was partially responsible for killing him. It would make all Christians spiritually responsible for the murder of their own God…
Elliaison Contributor – …Yeah, it does…
Abraham was willing to kill his own son acting as the symbol off Christ. He held the knife that killed the symbol of Christ. We have all been willing to kill Christ/the innocent to save ourselves. In trying to save our souls we lose them. We have to be willing to lose our souls to finally gain them.
Quote:"And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel’s, the same shall save it.
36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?" - Mark 8:34-37
Another quote from the book,
Quote:Many years after the revelation, while writing this book, one of the Elliaison contributors looked up the english word “life” in these verses and found that it comes from the Greek word “psychē” which means:
Quote:“The (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life.
The soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death.” - Strong's Concordance - Blue Letter Bible
It is the same word used for “soul” in the following verse:
Quote:“And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” - Matt. 10:28
This means that the scripture should actually read as follows:
Quote:“And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
35 For whosoever will save his soul shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his soul for my sake and the gospel’s, the same shall save it.
36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?” - Mark 8:34-37, see also Luke 9:23-25, Matt. 16:25-26
This confirmed the revelation we were given and shows that this is what Christ had actually taught as is recorded in several places in the Bible.
Christians are willing to let the innocent/Christ suffer and die for them to save their souls. In doing so, they lose their souls and become murders of Christ. (They don't realize what they are doing, so they remain innocent like little children, but the effects are felt throughout their lives.)
We have to refuse to allow the innocent suffer and die for the guilty and take up our own cross rather than allow Christ to suffer the cross for us. We have to stop letting the innocent suffer on our behalf so we can save ourselves the pain of life and our own problems.
An example of us trying to save ourselves is by selling a lemon (car) to someone without telling them that it is a lemon. When we deceive someone into buying a car that has major issues, (without disclosing those issues), we are making them suffer on our behalf to save ourselves money. Or if we cause damage to something, if we hide it or don't own up to it, we are trying to save ourselves and push our cross onto someone else, making the innocent suffer on our behalf. When we sin, if we expect Jesus to suffer the punishment of our sins, then we are making the innocent suffer for the guilty and trying to save our souls eternal torment by putting our cross on the innocent. We need to stop trying to save our souls by making the innocent suffer for us in all areas of life, even our spiritual life. whosoever will save his soul shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his soul for my sake and the gospel’s, the same shall save it.
Stop assenting to the death of Christ.
Quote:D&C 132:27
27 The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall not be forgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit murder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be damned, saith the Lord.
Seek Truth,
Amonhi
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