Home » Discuss Elliaison Books and Articles » The Fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ » The Fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ (Discuss points related to this chapter.)
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| Re: The Fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ [message #603 is a reply to message #9] |
Sat, 30 June 2012 14:45   |
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JulesGP
Messages: 357
Registered: May 2012
Location: Davis County, UT
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Senior Member |
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Ok I learned a lot from this chapter but it also left me with a few questions that hopefully can be clarified.
One thing I never knew that SEEMS like it SHOULD be so clear and simple:
Quote:"The three principles of the Fullness of the Gospel are present in every sacrament meeting through the sacrament itself".
THAT is SO awesome to me! It's NO WONDER the Savior gave the Sacrament to us, and commanded that we do these things - so we are CONSTANTLY reminded of the FULLNESS as HE gave it to us!
My understanding of what is said about the sacrament, is that taking the sacrament is a way to REPENT. So, can ANYTHING we need to repent of be done via the sacrament and coming to the Savior with a broken heart and a contrite spirit? Does a bishop need to be involved every time we repent? Is there a line drawn where sins on the left side of the line can be repented of on our own, and those on the right need to be taken to the bishop? I don't remember the Savior teaching to take our sins to church authorities, I only see him teaching to come to HIM with a broken heart and contrite spirit....?
Another question I have: So many times in the scriptures, we see the term (or something similar) "repent and be baptized for the remission of sins". Well in the early days of the church (I think Brigham Young started it...), people practiced re-baptism regularly. So is that something that was done in ancient times too? Do we need to be re-baptised for a remission of our sins, or is the Sacrament ordinance sufficient? (I don't mean after excommunication from the church, I mean as an ordinance to be washed clean of our sins.)
I also learned that receiving the Holy Ghost is A COMMANDMENT! In other words, we are commanded to bring ourselves to a place where the Spirit CAN be with us, and then allow the Spirit to guide us, and then act upon it! (Along with all that implies - do what the Spirit guides and commands us to do, not what man commands. Learn truth from the Spirit, not from man. Etc.) As the scriptures point out and the book reinforces - "...the Spirit knoweth all things", and "he shall teach you all things".
I also liked how it pointed out the underlying requirement needed in order to have ANY part of the Fullness of the Gospel - FAITH. I've been reading "Lectures on Faith", and it points out in that book, that even GOD cannot act without faith. Everything he does is based upon the faith that the elements themselves will follow his righteous governing. We cannot do anything without faith as a basis for any of our actions and decisions.
I have a question about John 14:26 quoted in the book. It says:
Quote:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
So the Spirit will teach us ALL things, and bring us to our REMEMBRANCE.... Does that mean we knew ALL THINGS before? How are we being "brought to a remembrance of all things" if we did not know them before? Can anyone clarify this for me?
One thing I liked too, is that the book points out the way the Holy Ghost will be our guide and teacher until we are able to receive instruction from the Savior Himself - and THAT is the Gospel! To receive and be taught by the Holy Ghost - not just feel promptings here and there, but to be taught and instructed by him as a preliminary step to being taught and instructed by the Savior. It's such a huge concept that IMHO, we are not taught by the church with the gravity we should be when we are baptized and blessed with the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Another question I have came from the last part of this chapter. The book says:
Quote:Eventually, when we all have accepted the Fullness of the Gospel, we will all be prophets.
It also quotes Joseph Smith. So do these things mean that accepting the Fullness is all it takes to be a prophet? Isn't there prophesying involved? Does it mean accepting the Fullness - and then testifying of it? Just want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding.
I'm sorry for such a long choppy post. I know I have lots of questions mixed in here, hope it's not too confusing to read through!
~Jules
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| Re: The Fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ [message #609 is a reply to message #603] |
Tue, 03 July 2012 05:42 |
Seeker
Messages: 244
Registered: June 2010
Location: Las Vegas
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Senior Member |
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JulesGP,
Here are my thoughts in regards to your thoughts and questions:
[quote"JulesGP"]"Elliaison""The three principles of the Fullness of the Gospel are present in every sacrament meeting through the sacrament itself".
THAT is SO awesome to me! It's NO WONDER the Savior gave the Sacrament to us, and commanded that we do these things - so we are CONSTANTLY reminded of the FULLNESS as HE gave it to us![/quote]
I really liked this part too. Not knowing what the fulness of the Gospel is, I would have never realized that the sacrament taught all these principles. Even knowing what the fulness is, I might not have realized that this is what the sacrament was all about, teaching a "mini lesson". The whole thing rolled up unto 5-10 minutes every week! Genius!
"JulesGP"So, can ANYTHING we need to repent of be done via the sacrament and coming to the Savior with a broken heart and a contrite spirit? Does a bishop need to be involved every time we repent? Is there a line drawn where sins on the left side of the line can be repented of on our own, and those on the right need to be taken to the bishop? I don't remember the Savior teaching to take our sins to church authorities, I only see him teaching to come to HIM with a broken heart and contrite spirit....?
This is a good question. I started a new topic to Discuss this called, "Clean Before God vs Clean Before the Church".
[quote"JulesGP"]Another question I have: So many times in the scriptures, we see the term (or something similar) "repent and be baptized for the remission of sins". Well in the early days of the church (I think Brigham Young started it...), people practiced re-baptism regularly. So is that something that was done in ancient times too? Do we need to be re-baptised for a remission of our sins, or is the Sacrament ordinance sufficient? (I don't mean after excommunication from the church, I mean as an ordinance to be washed clean of our sins.)[/quote]
I started a new topic to discuss this question called, "The Origins of Baptism".
~ Seeker
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| Re: The Fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ [message #610 is a reply to message #603] |
Tue, 03 July 2012 07:18 |
Seeker
Messages: 244
Registered: June 2010
Location: Las Vegas
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Senior Member |
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JulesGP wrote on Sat, 30 June 2012 14:45I also learned that receiving the Holy Ghost is A COMMANDMENT! Hey, so obvious that we trip over it! And so many people still do not "receive the Holy Ghost" after the ordinance tells them to do so. Or they get it here and there, but not as a constant companion. I don't have it all the time, but I am for the most part pleased with my own progress and connection to the spiritual. However, I continue to seek a greater endowment of the spirit.
Quote:I have a question about John 14:26 quoted in the book. It says:
Quote:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. So the Spirit will teach us ALL things, and bring us to our REMEMBRANCE.... Does that mean we knew ALL THINGS before? How are we being "brought to a remembrance of all things" if we did not know them before? Can anyone clarify this for me? Interesting thought. I haven't considered this before. Maybe it has something to do with being Gods in the spirit and having the veil drawn over our minds so that we forgot everything and now are remembering it again. Or, it could be interpreted to mean that it will remind us of all things we have forgotten, not that we knew all things. ??? Anyone have additional thoughts on this?
Quote:One thing I liked too, is that the book points out the way the Holy Ghost will be our guide and teacher until we are able to receive instruction from the Savior Himself - and THAT is the Gospel! To receive and be taught by the Holy Ghost - not just feel promptings here and there, but to be taught and instructed by him as a preliminary step to being taught and instructed by the Savior. It's such a huge concept that IMHO, we are not taught by the church with the gravity we should be when we are baptized and blessed with the gift of the Holy Ghost. I agree! I have felt that as missionaries we tell people to pray and learn from God the truth about the Book of Mormon and other principles and then after they join we tell them, "you can't trust your own revelation, so follow the prophet, he won't lead you astray". Its like, "If we can't trust our personal revelation now as baptized, confirmed members who have been given the Gift of the Holy Ghost, then why did we think we could trust it BEFORE when we were only investigating the church without the gift of the Holy Ghost? When you ask which one to follow when they contradict, most people will say, out of fear, follow the prophet above and beyond your personal revelation from the Holy Ghost. I think that is one reason few people have their C&E.
Quote:Another question I have came from the last part of this chapter. The book says:
Quote:Eventually, when we all have accepted the Fullness of the Gospel, we will all be prophets.
It also quotes Joseph Smith. So do these things mean that accepting the Fullness is all it takes to be a prophet? Isn't there prophesying involved? Does it mean accepting the Fullness - and then testifying of it? Just want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding. The testimony of Christ is the spirit of prophecy, or in other words, the testimony of Christ COMES BY the spirit of prophecy. So, if you have a testimony of Christ, you are a prophet. What this means is that if you get a testimony of future events, then you receive it the same way you received the testimony of Christ. The process is the same. You have all the tools you need to be a prophet. But that doesn't make you a prophet. Having the tools and even knowing how to use them doesn't mean that you actively use them.
A person can have paint brushes and paint and have painted a picture, and so you can call them a painter even if their painting resembles the work of a 4 year old. In this way, you could say you were a prophet, which is the point of the book. But in reality, having attempted painting, and having completed a painting which now decorates the landfills of the local Garbage Facilities, I would not consider myself a painter. Maybe a very poor painter...
On second thought, maybe I am a painter. A very poor painter, but a painter and with practice, lessons and more effort I would become a better painter. I do not know at what point I would consider myself a good painter. So, I talked myself out of my previous point and now agree that a painter or a prophet is still a prophet, even if they aren't a very good painter or prophet. There must then be varying levels or degrees which come through experience. And with practice and guidance we could become better prophets. I guess that is what every prophet has gone through any way. They must have to learn to be prophets or better prophets than they were when they first started.
(hmmmm...)
~ Seeker
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| Re: The Fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ [message #2239 is a reply to message #9] |
Mon, 25 February 2013 20:55 |
Contemplator
Messages: 12
Registered: January 2013
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Junior Member |
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This is a wonderful chapter about the Gospel of Jesus Christ. As was discussed in the chapter, the scriptures consistently define the Gospel of Jesus Christ as:
1. Repentance
2. Baptism
3. Receive the Holy Ghost
And, faith is often described in connection with the Gospel of Jesus Christ as well. But, the chapter makes the jump to a conclusion that the fulness of the gospel is also these three things because of the role of the Holy Ghost.
I would like to pose a question. Is there more to the fulness of the gospel? It seems that there are other scriptures that define the Fulness of the Gospel. For example, the chapter quotes D&C 39:6 as part of establishing just what the Gospel of Jesus Christ includes -
Quote: 6 And this is my gospel--repentance and baptism by water, and then cometh the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter, which showeth all things, and teacheth the peaceable things of the kingdom.
The chapter does not quote D&C 39:11 -
Quote: 11 And if thou do this, I have prepared thee for a greater work. Thou shalt preach the fulness of my gospel, which I have sent forth in these last days, the covenant which I have sent forth to recover my people, which are of the house of Israel.
This verse establishes that, having received the gospel, James Covill is ready for a greater work, teaching the fulness of the gospel. The fulness of the gospel is then defined as the covenant which the Lord has sent forth to recover His people of the house of Israel. This same definition is supported in D&C 66:2 and D&C 133:57 where the fulness of the gospel is equated with the everlasting covenant.
I agree that we will understand what is included in the fulness of the gospel by studying the Savior's ministry in the Book of Mormon. The following is a brief outline of the series of events and teaching during this visit of the Savior:
- Jesus defines His doctrine, given to Him by His Father. It is, in essence, to believe, repent, be baptized and receive the record of the Father through the Holy Ghost. (See 3 Nephi 11:32-39, also note that this topic is elaborated upon in 2 Nephi 31-32.)
- We are commanded to accept and follow this doctrine as we become as a little child (See 3 Nephi 11:37-38)
- Chapter 12-14 contain important teachings that are not the focus of this discussion.
- Chapters 15 and 16 contain teachings about "other sheep." The decedents of Lehi find that they are the "other sheep" Jesus spoke of to his disciples in Jerusalem. But, those disciples never learned of Lehi's family because they never asked after Jesus told them about the other sheep. So, the Father told Jesus to say no more (3 Nephi 15:17-21). Next, Jesus explained that he had yet other sheep (3 Nephi 16:1-3). Now, those who were listening had just been told that the disciples in Jerusalem never learned about the other sheep because they did not ask. Then after explaining this, Jesus said there are yet other sheep (hint, hint, hint) and by the end of chapter 16 nobody asked about them. So, Jesus said, "I perceive that ye are weak, that ye cannot understand all my words ..." (3 Nephi 17:2). He taught them to ask, seek and knock. He told them about how the disciples at Jerusalem didn't learn because they didn't ask. Then he gave them something to ask about, and they didn't ask. It seems that the people were not ready to learn about Jesus' sheep (the family of Israel).
- Jesus does not just leave in disappointment. Rather, He was filled with compassion and healed all of the sick or afflicted among them (3 Nephi 17:6-9). Then he asked for all their little children to be brought and he stood in their midst and prayed for all the people using words that cannot be written. Imagine the joy of this experience! These people witnessed the miracles that Jesus performed in mortality, and more.
- In Chapter 18 Jesus institutes the sacrament, commands the people to pray, to be a light to the world, and to teach others of Jesus Christ. He gave the disciples the power to give the Holy Ghost. and then ascended into Heaven. These things He did to prepare the people for what would happen the next day, and beyond.
- Those who were there the first day went home to gather everyone else to the temple for the return of Jesus the next day. In the morning the disciples taught what Jesus had taught the day before. Then all were baptized and received the Holy Ghost. Thus prepared, Jesus returned and stood in their midst. Everyone kneeled down and prayed. Jesus moved off a little way and prayed thanking the Father for giving these people, whom He had chosen, the Holy Ghost (3 Nephi 19:20). Then, returning He finds that they are praying as directed by the Spirit and they are coming to have the same countenance as Jesus. He went a little way off again and thanked the Father for purifying these people (3 Nephi 19:28). Finally, he prays to the Father that these may all be one with Him and the Father. After observing them again, He prays using words that cannot be recorded.
- In 3 Nephi 20:10 he says that people are ready and he will finish the commandment of the Father that he could not complete back in chapter 17 when He saw that the people were not ready. We can learn great lessons from this sequence. The things that happen in chapters 17, 18 and 19 are hints at the things that need to happen in our own lives for us to be ready to be taught about the covenant of the Father with Israel. That is the topic of chapters 20-26 which cover the rest of Jesus' teachings during this visit. And, the result of this sequence is the establishment of a Zion-like people.
It would seem, then, that the fulness of the gospel is, as defined in the D&C and as delivered by the Savior as recorded in the Book of Mormon is the gospel of Jesus Christ PLUS the covenant to recover His people. In other words, could it be that the fulness of the gospel is more than just individual salvation through repentance baptism and the Holy Ghost, but it also includes the gathering of God's people by those who have received the gospel?
What do you think?
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