Home » The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints » Current Church Doctrine » Calling and Election vs. Calling and Election Sure
 Calling and Election vs. Calling and Election Sure [message #2180] |
Mon, 04 February 2013 18:19  |
scootd28
Messages: 11
Registered: June 2012
Location: Holladay, UT
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Junior Member |
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I recently read the book "Obtaining your Calling and Election" by the Clawsons. Some of you might have read it. There was nothing new in it except the concept that one can receive their calling and election through the spirit, signifying that one's life is worthy of the celestial kingdom, but to have that calling and election made "sure" required the second anointing. I thought, "Well, now that's interesting - that could resolve the conflict that I'm still trying to resolve between those who say it requires the hands-on temple ordinance and those who say it doesn't." So, like a good little COFB member, I got on my knees and prayed, asking if such was the case with me, that I had simply received my C&E but it hadn't been made sure. I wasn't there very long - not even 2 minutes - when the answer came as clearly as anything ever has....."Nope - your C&E has been made SURE".
I still struggle with this a little - but I have received so many very patient confirmations (because He knows my heart is pure) - that I have to conclude that those who say that it requires a temple ordinance are somehow wrong. Hope this isn't such a stale topic that nobody's interested in addressing it. I'd love to hear other takes on it.
Men are that they might have joy.
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| Re: Calling and Election vs. Calling and Election Sure [message #2181 is a reply to message #2180] |
Mon, 04 February 2013 18:39  |
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Denryu
Messages: 88
Registered: July 2012
Location: American Fork
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Member |
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scootd28 wrote on Mon, 04 February 2013 18:19I recently read the book "Obtaining your Calling and Election" by the Clawsons. Some of you might have read it. There was nothing new in it except the concept that one can receive their calling and election through the spirit, signifying that one's life is worthy of the celestial kingdom, but to have that calling and election made "sure" required the second anointing. I thought, "Well, now that's interesting - that could resolve the conflict that I'm still trying to resolve between those who say it requires the hands-on temple ordinance and those who say it doesn't." So, like a good little COFB member, I got on my knees and prayed, asking if such was the case with me, that I had simply received my C&E but it hadn't been made sure. I wasn't there very long - not even 2 minutes - when the answer came as clearly as anything ever has....."Nope - your C&E has been made SURE".
I still struggle with this a little - but I have received so many very patient confirmations (because He knows my heart is pure) - that I have to conclude that those who say that it requires a temple ordinance are somehow wrong. Hope this isn't such a stale topic that nobody's interested in addressing it. I'd love to hear other takes on it.
Scoot, I need to ask you something, and it is not because I doubt your experience or anyone else's, it is because I doubt my own.
At the time that this happened, aside from the voice that you have heard clearly (I have done the same) did you also feel the burning in the bosom of the Holy Ghost testifying as a second witness?
I don;t ask that to bring any doubt into your mind. I just realized that in my experience, although I "felt good" and was in fact elated to have gotten the answer that I received - I did not get that second witness. And although I know that doubt is the enemy of faith, it has raised doubts in my mind. (I have also had wonderful experiences in the past that have distilled upon my soul and I did feel the Holy Ghost along with what I was told.)
I will be spending some time on my knees asking for more confirmation or for further understanding if I have allowed myself to be misled - asking for a course correction if you will.
Libertas optimas rarem, nunquam servili sub nexu.
"There is no gift like Liberty, therefore never live under slavery."
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| Re: Calling and Election vs. Calling and Election Sure [message #2194 is a reply to message #2180] |
Sat, 09 February 2013 11:10 |
iWitness
Messages: 51
Registered: November 2012
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Denryu, I hope this is relevant to what you asked because I have to skim for lack of time right now...
I know several "spiritual giant" kind of people who have said publicly that they've NEVER felt the burning in the bosom. One has C&E.
I have had my C&E and it was more of a washed all over tingling coldish feeling....no burning.
When I feel the Spirit, I get a coldish sensation. I think everyone feels the Spirit differently. Especially since many people with fantastic testimonies have mentioned that they've never felt the "burning".
I think it's so funny how we all doubt our C&E. I doubted mine for a few weeks and had confirmation after confirmation. I don't know why we think, "but..but... maybe I'm being prideful thinking I could have such a blessing bestowed..."
If the Spirit says it is so, it is so.
-iWitness
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| Re: Calling and Election vs. Calling and Election Sure [message #2281 is a reply to message #2180] |
Sat, 09 March 2013 23:17 |
Seeker
Messages: 244
Registered: June 2010
Location: Las Vegas
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Senior Member |
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Quote:I recently read the book "Obtaining your Calling and Election" by the Clawsons. Some of you might have read it. There was nothing new in it except the concept that one can receive their calling and election through the spirit, signifying that one's life is worthy of the celestial kingdom, but to have that calling and election made "sure" required the second anointing. I thought, "Well, now that's interesting - that could resolve the conflict that I'm still trying to resolve between those who say it requires the hands-on temple ordinance and those who say it doesn't." So, like a good little COFB member, I got on my knees and prayed, asking if such was the case with me, that I had simply received my C&E but it hadn't been made sure. I wasn't there very long - not even 2 minutes - when the answer came as clearly as anything ever has....."Nope - your C&E has been made SURE".
LOL, I got a good laugh at this... (Smiling) I understand where you are coming from. When my wife and I received it, we knew exactly what we were told and were very familiar with revelation and had been given exact words many times, this was no different. And we realized what the promise said but couldn't believe that we could really have received it. We were in our very early 20's and our parents on both sides had desired this blessing their whole lives. We needed a few confirmations too. lol, it goes back to trusting that the Lord knows what he's doing better than you and I who tend to judge according to men. Once we accept the "What", then we can move on to "How". many people say that the "What" is whatever they find reasonable according to their understanding or what is taugh in church and never accept the true "what" as taught by the spirit so they can never move on the "how".
The "What" in this case is, "What happened?" The answer is, "You got your C&E." The next question is "How?"
~ Seeker
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| Re: Calling and Election vs. Calling and Election Sure [message #2400 is a reply to message #2180] |
Wed, 01 May 2013 09:38 |
bishop
Messages: 144
Registered: July 2010
Location: USA
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Senior Member |
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Scootd28,
I agree with the other posts. You have received your CE. I went thru the same conflict, wondering if it could be so simple, and yet knowing that I had received it. I needed corroberation from someone else who had received their CE. I hope that this forum helps you get that little extra boost of belief. Once you get past the initial shock, then you come to realize that you are at the beginning of a whole new way of life. You are a baby, learning to crawl, in a world where Gods and angels fly.
Bishop
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