Elliaison.org - Forum
Elliaison.org forum is a free discussion group focused on the persuit of truth and spiritual knowledge from every source.

Home » The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints » Current Church Doctrine » God's Priesthood and Satan's Priesthood
God's Priesthood and Satan's Priesthood [message #1620] Mon, 17 December 2012 18:57 Go to next message
iWitness
Messages: 51
Registered: November 2012
Member
Kay, in Gospel Principles class this week, one of the class members who was a former bishop mentioned how God has Priesthood that is functional by faith, and Satan's priesthood is functional by fear.

This got me into deeply thinking about both of them. Satan is able to do some pretty extravagant things through his priesthood, but it's not good. Extravagant, yes. Lovely, no.

God's priesthood is good.

I'm so confused. So where does this herb fit in?

For example, there is a drug called ayahuasca. The shamans in the south american rain forests use it in their spiritual rituals. People who document their experiences tell about how they felt and were able to see the energy that they shared with the world around them. They get emotional when recounting the beautiful unconditional love they felt, like nothing they had ever before experienced in their lifetimes. People who don't believe in God kneel in prayer. They are able to see good and bad spirits around them; the veil is lifted for them.

Since I would venture to guess none of you have studied DMT or ayahuasca, could you tell me what you've learned about the differences between God's priesthood and Satan's priesthood. I would love to learn more about it.

THANKS!

-iWitness

[Updated on: Mon, 17 December 2012 21:08]

Report message to a moderator

Re: God's Priesthood and Satan's Priesthood [message #1622 is a reply to message #1620] Mon, 17 December 2012 20:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JulesGP
Messages: 357
Registered: May 2012
Location: Davis County, UT
Senior Member

Quote:
Since I would venture to guess none of you have studied DMT or ayahuasca, could you tell me what you've learned about the differences between God's priesthood and Satan's priesthood. I would love to learn more about it.

Oops! You haven't learned all there is to know about Jules.... Wink

Quote:
For example, there is a drug called ayahuasca. The shamans in the south american rain forests use it in their spiritual rituals. People who document their experiences tell about how they felt and were able to see the energy that they shared with the world around them. They get emotional when recounting the beautiful unconditional love they felt, like nothing they had ever before experienced in their lifetimes. People who don't believe in God kneel in prayer. They are able to see good and bad spirits around them; the veil is lifted for them.


I would assert that the word "drug" is not necessarily the most appropriate description here.

Quote:
29 And the Gods said: Behold, we will give them every herb bearing seed that shall come upon the face of all the earth, and every tree which shall have fruit upon it; yea, the fruit of the tree yielding seed to them we will give it; it shall be for their meat.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemisia_%28genus%29 or "Wormwood" is used throughout the bible. (Deut. 29:18; Jer. 9:15; 23:15; Lam. 3:15, 19; Amos 5:7).

Cummin -an umbelliferous plant was used as a condiment and stimulant (Isa. 28:27). It was one of the small garden herbs tithed by the Pharisees (Matt. 23:23).

Etc.

And what if someone's spirit is sick? Is it such a stretch to think that the Lord might have provided an herbal catalyst to some parts of the world to foster that healing?
Quote:

43 And whosoever among you are sick, and have not faith to be healed, but believe, shall be nourished with all tenderness, with herbs and mild food, and that not by the hand of an enemy.


Quote:
17 Yea, and the herb, and the good things which come of the earth, whether for food or for raiment, or for houses, or for barns, or for orchards, or for gardens, or for vineyards;

18 Yea, all things which come of the earth, in the season thereof, are made for the benefit and the use of man, both to please the eye and to gladden the heart;

19 Yea, for food and for raiment, for taste and for smell, to strengthen the body and to enliven the soul.

20 And it pleaseth God that he hath given all these things unto man; for unto this end were they made to be used, with judgment, not to excess, neither by extortion.


Now I am not suggesting that we deliberately get people "high" to bring them to God, but there are also a world of cultural, legal, lower vs. higher law, etc... considerations and differences here. If this plant brings those people to God, is the plant or the use of it for that purpose - evil? If one of us went to stay with those people and experience their culture and with righteous intent tried this brew, would that be counted as sin? Is it any different than meeting with the Lakota and experiencing one of their religious inipi (sweat lodge) ceremonies and puffing the peace pipe at the end to send the prayers to God with the smoke? Is it wrong for them to use peyote drink in their healing ceremonies? (Peyote invokes hallucinations and visions that often allow participants in the ceremonies to experience thinness of the veil.)

Quote:
10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man--

11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.


Quote:
16 All grain is good for the food of man; as also the fruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground--

17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;

19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;

20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.

21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.


Other cultures (especially in earlier times), are not so wasteful as we Americans are, and more "primitive" cultures - that rely less upon "modern technology" rely upon the earth and the things God blessed us with on this earth. They respect the plants and regard them as sacred and lives that sacrifice themselves for our use - to bring us closer to God. Most Native American Indian cultures I'm familiar with give prayer and thanks for the LIVES they took that provide them with their food and medicines. Their entire cultures are centered around God.

Quote:
Doctrine and Covenants 88:19

19 For after it hath filled the measure of its creation, it shall be crowned with glory, even with the presence of God the Father;


These cultures use herbs, plants, etc., with prudence and thanksgiving, to bring them closer to God. Though it may be unconventional in our culture and understanding, who are we to determine that it is not right?

What about meditation? (Could be considered "new agey"). What if someone had a vision while on the operating table (filled with pharmaceuticals I might add....), does that invalidate it? What about "smudging" sage (Indian cultures regard sage as a sacred plant that wards off evil)? Is that culture using a tool of the "occult"?

My thoughts probably sound random - and likely are, as I'm very sick today. (I may regret this post tomorrow Confused ). For clarification, my bottom line belief on this is (along with those things I've posted), is that ALL things of the earth were given to us by God to be used for good. Is good coming from the use of this tonic by the South American Shamans? Are they becoming closer to God and bringing righteousness to their people? (I know that cultures such as those choose their Shamans based upon righteousness and they devote their entire lives to the healing and caring of their people - both physically and spiritually.)I believe, if it (whatever IT is....) is used with righteous intent, and brings about righteousness, it is righteous. On the flip side, take any of those components and replace the word "righteous" with "evil", and it negates the whole thing.

Again, I'm sorry for my sick rambling - I may edit this when I'm well again. (Maybe I need some herbs.....)


~Jules
Re: God's Priesthood and Satan's Priesthood [message #1631 is a reply to message #1622] Tue, 18 December 2012 14:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
FreddyV is currently offline  FreddyV
Messages: 50
Registered: December 2012
Member
Jules,

Wow, that is a fascinating and thoughtful perspective. I love that verse, from D&C: 11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.

We often, in our culture, abuse all things good given from God. Think of fast food, and how much we tend to consume meat. All those I would consider to be abuses of good things God has given us, yet we don't often condemn people for breaking the word of wisdom for over consumption of unhealthy, processed foods, and too much meat. Besides, we have now taken the word of wisdom as a commandment, when it clearly states in the scripture itself that it is not given by way of commandment. We impose that meaning.

All things to be used with prudence and thanksgiving. If we adopted that attitude, we would find ourselves much healthier and living much more closely to the Spirit.
Re: God's Priesthood and Satan's Priesthood [message #1632 is a reply to message #1631] Tue, 18 December 2012 15:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JulesGP
Messages: 357
Registered: May 2012
Location: Davis County, UT
Senior Member

FreddyV wrote on Tue, 18 December 2012 14:09
Jules,

Wow, that is a fascinating and thoughtful perspective. I love that verse, from D&C: 11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.

We often, in our culture, abuse all things good given from God. Think of fast food, and how much we tend to consume meat. All those I would consider to be abuses of good things God has given us, yet we don't often condemn people for breaking the word of wisdom for over consumption of unhealthy, processed foods, and too much meat. Besides, we have now taken the word of wisdom as a commandment, when it clearly states in the scripture itself that it is not given by way of commandment. We impose that meaning.

All things to be used with prudence and thanksgiving. If we adopted that attitude, we would find ourselves much healthier and living much more closely to the Spirit.

This forum doesn't have the clapping emoticon - but I echo everything you said Freddy!


~Jules
Re: God's Priesthood and Satan's Priesthood [message #1642 is a reply to message #1632] Wed, 19 December 2012 12:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ashleyd is currently offline  Ashleyd
Messages: 100
Registered: May 2012
Senior Member
I agree with the above as it echos my personal understanding of these things as well.
Re: God's Priesthood and Satan's Priesthood [message #1643 is a reply to message #1622] Wed, 19 December 2012 14:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
brrgilbert is currently offline  brrgilbert
Messages: 282
Registered: December 2012
Location: Nampa, Idaho
Senior Member

JulesGP said:

"I believe, if it (whatever IT is....) is used with righteous intent, and brings about righteousness, it is righteous. On the flip side, take any of those components and replace the word "righteous" with "evil", and it negates the whole thing."

(Titus 1:15.)

15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

(Romans 14:13-14.)

13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Wonderful insight, Jules. Spot on.


"I must endure the presence of a few caterpillars if I wish to become acquainted with the butterflies."

The Little Prince by St. Exupery

[Updated on: Wed, 19 December 2012 14:12]

Report message to a moderator

Re: God's Priesthood and Satan's Priesthood [message #1668 is a reply to message #1643] Thu, 20 December 2012 10:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JulesGP
Messages: 357
Registered: May 2012
Location: Davis County, UT
Senior Member

Thank you for those scriptures brrgilbert! Those are awesome, and exactly what my understanding is!

~Jules
Re: God's Priesthood and Satan's Priesthood [message #1669 is a reply to message #1643] Thu, 20 December 2012 11:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iWitness
Messages: 51
Registered: November 2012
Member
Jules, I feel the exact same way.
It's liberating to find people open to the Spirit and true learning (:

What are some examples of Satan's priesthood VS God's priesthood?

-iWitness
Re: God's Priesthood and Satan's Priesthood [message #1731 is a reply to message #1669] Mon, 24 December 2012 17:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon is currently offline  Dragon
Messages: 499
Registered: June 2010
Location: Earth
Senior Member
Fear can be a powerful motivator, and God uses fear to bring the wicked to repentance. The phrase 'Put the Fear of God in Them' is quite literal. Those who are in a sinful state need to realize how precarious their position is. They will one day face the Savior and be confronted with all their deeds. If that does not make them fear to sin, they are likely already beyond feeling.

In order to progress, that Fear of God must be replaced by a Love of God. Fear of the devil is not as powerful as the Fear of God, yet some people allow it to overshadow the fear of God. Yet no one loves the devil. Not in the way they can Love God. I know this point has been discussed before, so I will say this English language is so inexact that there is a level of love one may have for the devil, but it is not the same at all as the Love of God.

Does the devil have priesthood? To answer that you would need to define priesthood and learn how it is given from Jesus to all of us. The answer is fairly quick to see. The Priesthood of God is the power and authority to act in the name of God. Can someone have the power and authority to act in the name of the devil? I would say yes. Wicca has a priesthood of sorts, and some of them call upon the devil to do their work. Others call on the God of all Creation. I know I was offered what I might call the priesthood of Satan, but of course I turned it down. All the powers and abilities he has at his command were offered to me if I would do his bidding. I know others have experienced this, but I have never met someone who accepted the deal with the devil. The Beast and the Anti-Christ from the Book of Revelation come to mind, but I haven't met them yet.


- Dragon
Re: God's Priesthood and Satan's Priesthood [message #1800 is a reply to message #1731] Mon, 31 December 2012 15:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
brrgilbert is currently offline  brrgilbert
Messages: 282
Registered: December 2012
Location: Nampa, Idaho
Senior Member
Since FEAR is the antithesis of FAITH; since False Evidence Appearing Real is the antithesis of Functionally Applied Intelligence Through Hope, I have learned that there is a difference between "magic, smoke, and mirrors" and "reality, clarity, and windows."

"I must endure the presence of a few caterpillars if I wish to become acquainted with the butterflies."

The Little Prince by St. Exupery
Re: God's Priesthood and Satan's Priesthood [message #1923 is a reply to message #1622] Sat, 12 January 2013 10:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rdwhitaker is currently offline  rdwhitaker
Messages: 118
Registered: December 2012
Location: Vancouver, Washington
Senior Member
Good points, Jules!

I heard Sister Marne Tuttle, wife of A. Theodore Tuttle, once say that the church was developing a program for the study and application of herbs and natural healings, but then changed its mind.

It bothers me how much the church supports and promotes "conventional" medicine and pharmacology. My wife and I have followed less conventional health measures and believe we have fared better because of it. She was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis just before we were married. She opted for more natural courses of treatment rather than the steroids and weird (and expensive) drugs they wanted to poison her with. Primarily, she has followed dietary, exercise, and meditation forms of treatment. She has done extremely well over the past 36 years. Most people have no idea she even has M.S.

I read a book that heaps a scathing denunciation of "Big Medicine" written by Dr. Robert S. Mendelsohn called "Confessions of a Medical Heretic" http://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Medical-Heretic-Robert-Mendelsohn/dp/0809241315

It really opened my eyes. He points out how Big Medicine is anti-religion, anti-family, anti-freedom, anti-health, pro-death, and on and on. Quite an amazing book from a very recognized and successful doctor!


Don't . . . Quit . . . Trying!!
Re: God's Priesthood and Satan's Priesthood [message #1924 is a reply to message #1731] Sat, 12 January 2013 10:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rdwhitaker is currently offline  rdwhitaker
Messages: 118
Registered: December 2012
Location: Vancouver, Washington
Senior Member
Dragon wrote on Mon, 24 December 2012 16:16
Does the devil have priesthood? To answer that you would need to define priesthood and learn how it is given from Jesus to all of us. The answer is fairly quick to see. The Priesthood of God is the power and authority to act in the name of God. Can someone have the power and authority to act in the name of the devil? I would say yes. Wicca has a priesthood of sorts, and some of them call upon the devil to do their work. Others call on the God of all Creation. I know I was offered what I might call the priesthood of Satan, but of course I turned it down. All the powers and abilities he has at his command were offered to me if I would do his bidding. I know others have experienced this, but I have never met someone who accepted the deal with the devil. The Beast and the Anti-Christ from the Book of Revelation come to mind, but I haven't met them yet.


I believe it was yet another of Satan's big lies when he claimed to have any priesthood. I believe a proper definition of priesthood is intrinsically connected with eternal truth, and God is the source of truth. Truth is light. Light is glory. Satan does not have glory, but he wishes he did. So he mimics priesthood and tries to convince others he has power. His power comes from persuading souls to remit their agency to his influences. Fear is one of the ways he weakens people's resolve and can get them to give in to him. If we refuse to yield, then he has no power over us. I remember Joseph Smith saying something about this. This is not to say that Satan is powerless. He understands spiritual laws that we no longer remember, and he is able to put up some very convincing appearances and arguments that lead even the elect to stumble. Satan is not to be trifled with or taken too lightly. Joseph Smith felt he was going to succumb to Satan's awful power before God and Jesus Christ appeared. Moses' resolve weakened when Satan began to wail and gnash his teeth and in fear, Moses saw the bitterness of hell.

So when it comes to priesthood, I believe there is true priesthood and false priesthood, and false priesthood is no priesthood at all.

Ryan


Don't . . . Quit . . . Trying!!
Re: God's Priesthood and Satan's Priesthood [message #2022 is a reply to message #1620] Thu, 17 January 2013 17:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iWitness
Messages: 51
Registered: November 2012
Member
After I wrote this post, I wanted to delete the part about ayahuasca, because I realized it wasn't relevant. But then Jules post wouldn't have made sense, so I didn't. I have been reading about ayahuasca for months now, and I've felt the spirit strongly when some people have shared their experiences. So now I know it's not a tool of satan. I was being narrow-minded. BAD KAY! BAD! (;

Ryan, Great point. Language is so funny, isn't it? A false priesthood really isn't a priesthood at all. But I can see where people view it as a priesthood. It's a very low frequency vibration. God's Priesthood has the highest vibrational frequency. Someday people will start to understand these things more clearly. And what a joyous day that will be!!! When all truth is circumscribed into one great whole. No more bickering. Doesn't that sound dreamy? I love the gospel.

I have studied alternative health and health in general since I could start reading. I'm sure the Lord wants me to do something with it, I just don't know what yet. I'm so glad there are people in the church looking into alternative health. I'm teaching a class for enrichment in RS next month on healthy eating and exercise. Sure hope I don't make people mad. It's just advice, ya? Tell people pharmaceuticals are poison and they jump all over you. She-e-e-e-e-e-e-ple. (; hahahaha

-iWitness
Re: God's Priesthood and Satan's Priesthood [message #2856 is a reply to message #1620] Mon, 02 December 2013 15:58 Go to previous message
leejae is currently offline  leejae
Messages: 11
Registered: November 2013
Location: USA
Junior Member
I have teased my convert husband many times over the years about the fact that I don't think anyone will ever convince him some of those things Jules speaks of are bad. His well-planned and intentionally few psychedelic experiences were pretty profound...I have always wondered myself why God would create a plant that did something like that for no reason except "evil."
Previous Topic: How can one be a slave to the Holy Ghost? Is that a bad thing?
Next Topic: Can an Atheist be Moral?
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Thu Nov 21 17:13:12 MST 2024