Home » The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints » Current Church Doctrine » Right and Wrong (Wo unto those who call evil good and good evil.)
| Right and Wrong [message #1412] |
Fri, 09 November 2012 22:13  |
iWitness
Messages: 51
Registered: November 2012
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I am not a very articulate person, and I have a hard time talking coherently to people...hahah.... And this is my first post on this website. There are few places I've ever posted on the internet, but I'm going to give this a shot. I'm young, so please don't take anything I'm about to say too harshly.
I told my husband tonight that Elliaison.org is the first site and forum that hasn't left me with an empty feeling inside. I'm quite spiritually sensitive, and I can see myself staying here forever. You guys teach me. I cannot express the relief I've had since finding you guys. I've been praying for a group of people such as yourselves and I feel I am now prepared to have ears to hear and eyes to see.
I finally decided to post tonight because I have some things I need to get out.
I feel like I was born to be a teacher. Ever since I was a little girl, I've always been doing things different than other people. Going against the grain, not following the crowd/sheeple. In fact, Satan has made it a point to try and get me to go against my nature off and on here in mortality, but I fight it. It is not natural to try to be something you're not.
Ok, so I find in the church more and more that there are things people know are wrong, but they keep doing them. Why? Because, "everyone else is doing it", "the prophet probably eats meat". Or, "Well, I know the stake president watches sports". I have never opened my mouth at church or in a group setting about what I'm about to say because I hate offending people. People get offended, often quite easily. I'm not here to condemn, but I feel scripture backs me up, and I know you folks here love the Word of God, and lean unto it and not the arm of the flesh.
Here are some points:
Eating meat and/or unhealthy food
Judging people
Watching television
Wearing makeup
Watching sports
Looking at fashion magazines/websites
Movies with foul material(including R, PG-13, PG, and G ratings
Gossiping
Keep in mind I could write a novel about each one of these points, but I want to know what you guys think about them before I go in to any details.
Now, I know the prophet doesn't come out and say not to do these things, because we have brains! He who is compelled in ALL THINGS, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant. We can make decisions to follow in the ways of the world, or follow God. But why doesn't anyone openly talk about avoiding sins like these? To me these things lead to bad paths, because I've been there. These things, I believe, do not jive with The Holy Spirit of God.
I've been on both sides of the fence. I've lived a vain and unholy life, I've had many experiences that I can relate to most people with from all different backgrounds. I'm not some self-righteous arrogant mormon. I feel like I have a leg to stand on when addressing these concepts.
How do you guys feel about those points? There's so many patterns to the ways of the world. But I can't ignore the scriptures call to not call evil good and good evil.
In my mind it IS black and white. And as member we should help each other live high standards. But where I live, and perhaps where you live too, if you address anything related to the afore mentioned points, you are looked at like you have two heads. Like some weird creature. Like..."Really? You didn't go see the new James Bond movie??? WHAT?! You don't WANT to?!....why???? What's wrong with you? Oh, you must be one of 'those' people..."
Please tell me I've found someone who gets what I'm trying to talk about. I hope I don't offend any of you. I'm not trying to say "I'm perfect and your not so get with it". That is not my purpose here.
I hope this is coherent....hahaha...I really do try. Maybe if I stay here long enough, I'll learn how to be a better writer and be able to state what I am thinking more clearly!
Love you all and look forward to what you have to say!
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| Re: Right and Wrong [message #1415 is a reply to message #1412] |
Sat, 10 November 2012 10:43  |
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Dragon
Messages: 499
Registered: June 2010
Location: Earth
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Senior Member |
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iWitness,
First of all, welcome to the group! I sense in your post a desire to have open and intellectually honest discussions about spiritual matters. That is indeed difficult to find today. I hope you find here what you have been seeking.
Now, a brief coverage of the topics:
Eating meat
1Tim 4:1-5Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
D&C 89:12Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;
I do not find justification in the scriptures for abstaining from the consumption of the flesh of animals which God has ordain for our use. I do agree most people, including many Saints, eat far too much meat. Also, my reading of the Law of Moses tells me we as a society have removed ourselves from what it takes to produce our meat. It is my opinion that everyone who eats steak or hamburger should witness a cow slaughter at least once. If they still want to eat beef, then they have a better perspective and understanding. The same goes for chicken. If you enjoy fish, go fishing some time. It will connect you with the animal more, which God intended.
or unhealthy food
The problem here is that everyone has a different definition of unhealthy. For instance, a person with a gluten allergy would find Whole Wheat Bread to be unhealthy. If I'm helping someone in the ward move, a boost of fat and sugar may be appropriate (aka the dreaded doughnut). While I agree there are some foods which are never healthy, the wise and conscious consumption of food is a different diet for each person.
Judging people
There is a phrase in scripture: Judge not, lest ye be judged. So people think they aren't allowed to judge others. But the correct phrase is: Judge not UNRIGHTEOUSLY, lest ye be judged. For with whatever measure you judge, it shall be measured unto you again.
Meaning, if you judge others harshly, God will hold you to the same standard. If you are lenient and understanding in the faults and failings of others, God will be lenient and understanding with you. However, we must be careful how we choose our friends. For many of us are easily overcome by constant peer pressure. Plus, you'll never get an uplifting or spiritually enlightening conversation from an inebriated 'friend'.
Watching television
There are many educational and uplifting programs on television. There is also a lot of garbage. It is the same as the internet. You will always find what you are looking for, but if you don't look carefully, you might find more than you bargained for.
As a personal choice, we do not have any kind of broadcast signal connected to our television. We about 10 shows we watch (only five are in season at a time) and we watch those online, so the schedule of television never affects us.
Wearing makeup
I would be interested to see a quote or rational argument against the careful use of makeup to enhance the natural beauty of a woman. I have made it quite clear to my wife that I do not need her to wear makeup to see how beautiful she is. She does wear it sometimes, but rarely more than once a week.
Watching sports
Haha! I could write my own book on why people watch sports and why they shouldn't! However, I understand the attraction to feeling part of something bigger than yourself. The biggest problem I have seen sports create (yes, even bigger than the time suck) is the hatred it instills against people who cheer for the other team. Some think you can't be a Utes fan without hating everyone who attended BYU. Or vice versa. Hatred is not a tool of God. (Enmity, maybe, but that's another discussion.)
Looking at fashion magazines/websites
I don't understand the attraction of this, so I can't comment, other than to say I agree with the lyrics of Everybody's Free (to wear sunscreen) "Do not ready beauty magazines, they will only make you feel ugly."
Movies with foul material(including R, PG-13, PG, and G ratings
This is a concept I had a hard time understanding. My first wife liked R rated movies, and at the time I didn't really see the harm. After all, it isn't church doctrine for the adults to avoid watching R-rated movies, that is for the youth. However, my current wife was able to help me see the effect on her when we watch an R-rated movie, and now we don't own any of those. After those had been cleansed from the house for awhile, I saw how some PG-13 movies were enjoyable, and others caused problems. We got rid of movies I enjoyed because of one or two seconds of film.
Gossiping
The temptation here is to feel better connected with your friends. So we try to share what is going on with each other, pass the news along. Yet gossiping goes farther, into speculating about the cause. I have speculated about the members of my ward, but only with my wife, and never shared those thoughts. There is a member of my ward who stepped down as 2nd councilor 2 weeks after being called. It was easy to think he'd had an affair. But I preferred to think his four children, full time job, and college studies proved to be too much for him to have a calling like 2nd councilor.
With the advent of facebook, we have a means of looking closer into everyone's life. Thus we can more often go straight to the source to discover the truth. However, this also allows for greater speculation. Very few users on facebook use it to communicate in a positive and healthy way with healthy boundaries.
There is one more reason people don't talk about these things. One of them may be your best friend's favorite sin. And discussion of it may offend them. However, in this world, every time we open our mouths we risk offending someone, especially when we take a firm stance on anything. I believe it is possible I may have offended you with some of the things I said earlier in this post. If so, I only hope you don't take it personally. Plus, only a fool takes offense.
- Dragon
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| Re: Right and Wrong [message #1421 is a reply to message #1419] |
Sat, 10 November 2012 18:26 |
Amonhi
Messages: 237
Registered: June 2010
Location: Las Vegas, NV.
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Senior Member |
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iWitness, welcome to Elliaison's forum. Great initial post. I have been extremely busy lately, (The story of my life), but I came on to approve your post and saw that Jules had already done so. (First post must always be approved, forum rules.)
Any way, Here are my brief thoughts on these points:
Eating meat and/or unhealthy food - The Millennium will not begin for the earth at large until the greater majority stops eating meat. Meat is ONLY for when there is not enough vegetation to sustain life, ie. To cold to grow food or famine.
Judging people - I agree with Dragon for the most part. I used to tell people that if you want a certain and free ticket to heaven, judge everyone else worthy of heaven and with that same judgement you will be judged and found worthy of heaven.
Watching television - I don't have a TV, but I stayed at a hotel not long ago and was amazed at some of the shows! I seriously told my wife, "If all shows were this good, I might waste my entire life!" Very educational! Follow the spirit. Just as every G movie is not worth seeing because it doesn't invite the spirit, so too not every R rated movie chases the spirit away. (Although I don't recommend searching for an R movie that agrees with the spirit.) I remember people talking about Mel Gibson's "The Passion" saying, I won't watch it until the prophet says it is ok. I thought, are you kidding, even if the Prophet approved that movie, You won't catch me seeing it! But, it may be right for where you are in your progression. It could bring you to a better understanding of Christ and the atonement. I understand it far too well and couldn't take the emotional abuse. If people are in a place where watching those types of movies makes them feel uplifted and spiritually aware, then good for them. That is just were they are. Maybe they are part of a gang and everyday life is so much worse that they see compassion and feel uplifted by watching SAW 18...
Wearing makeup - The spirit told me to give that up years ago and I have been blessed for it! LOL, Making blanket rules for or against a thing is part of the law of Moses and can never cover ever circumstance. I personally find a great deal of vale in the real. Makeup hides the real.
Watching sports - Rolling eyes... I hear ya! Knowing your intent, I agree, but once again, there ae always exceptions: watching your children playing sports can be great fun and family building. I personally like playing rather than watching.
Looking at fashion magazines/websites - Again, I agree it shouldn't be the multi billion dollar industry that it is, but I am certain that if I thought long and hard enough I could find a useful time and place...
Movies with foul material(including R, PG-13, PG, and G ratings - I addressed this above...
Gossiping - My best definition on the spot of gossiping is: talking about another person in a negative way with the intent to dramatize and or cause reactions which create negative feelings and thoughts about a person. I can't presently think of a reason to do this, but I have seen in scripture God speaking of various people and telling his people to stay away from them or worse.
In my opinion, everything comes down to intent. What are you trying to accomplish? Are you getting what you want? There is a time and a place for almost everything, But in most cases, the black and white lines are correct.
I know of a Mormon lady who was instructed by the spirit to purchase a pack of cigarettes. She had never done so and it was quiet unusual and uncomfortable to do so. But the spirit insisted and she did.
She was going to the middle east. Ended up using the cigarettes to negotiate her way out of a very bad situation. Sometimes we are only able to justify someones actions when we have all the details including hind-sight from after the fact...
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| Re: Right and Wrong [message #1423 is a reply to message #1412] |
Sat, 10 November 2012 21:10 |
iWitness
Messages: 51
Registered: November 2012
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I absolutely loved you're replies! Thanks guys.
Dragon, you said what pretty much everyone says when I bring up these topics. You didn't offend me one bit. Although, I got a little anxious writing about these topics, because each one is very dear to my heart.
Little background about me.
I had my Baptism by Fire when I was 12 years old, so since a very early age I've been trying to remove myself from the ways of the world. I've prayed extensively about these things. Ashley's reply is something I can completely relate to. I've found myself becoming hyper-sensitive to the spirit over the years. I removed myself from school in the 7th grade to start homeschooling. I had already gone through everything(only watching R rated movies, listening to terrible satanic music, sex, drugs, swearing, open rebellion against the LDS church, etc.) my peers would have yet to experience in the next several years. I always loved reading about Alma the younger and Paul of the New Testament, they each had a 360 turn around, just as I had.
Once while in homeschool, I read the Book of Mormon 4 times in 2 weeks. I was thirsty for goodness. I got my Patriarchal Blessing when I was 13. There were so many questions I had about my existence, the church, the gospel.
There's so much study, prayer, and background to these topics, so I'll start in the order I wrote and probably make novels...I apologize beforehand.
Eating meat
Alrighty...I was a vegetarian from age 6-12 because I couldn't stand the thought of hurting animals let alone eating them. Vegetarianism led me to Buddhism when I was 11, and the Buddha's practices are still dear to my heart. From a very early age I've studied health because I literally had to to survive. I've studied foods and herbs extensively. I know what foods cause cancer, diseases, and illness. I know how to reverse those things as well. When I came back to the church when I was 12, I started eating meat again much to my chagrin. I suffered from health problems until I stopped eating meat again after my first baby was born. Health improved drastically. Then started eating "sparingly" for a year until my second baby was born. After she was born a few months ago, I started a more vigorous study of veganism.
During the last few months, there is just no possible way to show or tell you just exactly what I've learned. The Holy Ghost has showed me a higher law when it comes to health and the Word of Wisdom, which is, A WORD OF WISDOM. It's not a commandment, it's wisdom. Pray about it for yourself. I have a testimony of the Word of Wisdom when it is lived to the letter, and I can testify that the below scripture is true when living the Word of Wisdom:
D&C 89:18-21
18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, ashall receive bhealth in their navel and marrow to their bones;
19 And shall afind bwisdom and great ctreasures of dknowledge, even hidden treasures;
20 And shall arun and not be bweary, and shall walk and not faint.
21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the adestroying angel shall bpass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.
Word of Wisdom
D&C 89:12-13
12 Yea, aflesh also of bbeasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used csparingly;
13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or bfamine.
If the pioneers didn't eat animal flesh, they would have died of starvation. But we live in a day and age where we have grocery stores and can go get fresh fruits and vegetables year round. We have these awesome things called freezers and refrigerators! No one in the history of the world has had these privileges. People who abstained from meats completely would have got sick and died in times of winter, or cold, or famine. We can eat foods in their season(when they are ripe[see Hugh Nibley's Document on the Word of Wisdom]).
I turned on the Documentary "Earthlings"(for free to watch on google movies if you're so inclined) a few months ago and watched a few minutes of it. Within those few life changing minutes, I vowed never to eat meat again unless it was needed and I killed the animal myself. The laying down of animal life so we can live should be a sacred experience. Once I made that decision, the Spirit told me SO STRONGLY, that this was one of biggest evils and conspiring in mens hearts of the last days that the WOW talks about. That men murder animals to get power and gain. To make some big bucks. Think of the hundreds of thousands of animals, if not MILLIONS in the grocery store that have just gone to waste because they expire. Terrible lives, not filling the measure of their creation, experiencing NO JOY, being killed in brutal ways, all to be THROWN AWAY. That does not jive with what I expect Heavenly Father had in store for his beloved creations. That is not exercising righteous dominion.
Some background to D&C 49. Leman Copley was a Shaker who later embraced the teachings of the Restored Gospel. The Shakers forbid men to eat pork, and many didn't eat meat at all. They also taught that the celibate life was more highly to be desired than that of married life. The revelation to Joseph Smith of the following ensued(D&C 49:18-21):
18 And whoso forbiddeth to abstain from meats, that man should not eat the same, is not ordained of God;
19 For, behold, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and that which cometh of the earth, is ordained for the use of man for food and for raiment, and that he might have in abundance.
20 But it is not given that one man should possess that which is above another, wherefore the world lieth in sin.
21 And wo be unto man that sheddeth blood or that wasteth flesh and hath no need.
We literally have no need to kill animals, considering we are living in communities where other(fresh fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, grains) food is available via grocery stores, and considering we have enough money. If you don't have money to buy food, and must go out and hunt as there is no other option, congratulations! It's given to you from God, so enjoy it with THANKSGIVING. I've received much of my understanding from personal revelation, I invite you to do the same.
Please know that I do not judge you for anything you do, especially what we're talking about. I hated meat-eaters when I was a little girl. Now I have a broad and wide-reaching understanding concerning peoples dietary choices:)
Animals have spirits, just like us. They will be resurrected, just like us. They feel sadness, depression, anxiety, anger, just like us. We share the same planet earth.
Some movies to watch, if you want to understand a little more where I'm coming from
"Forks over Knives"-the health consequences(available to watch for free on hulu.com
"Earthlings"-the moral reasons not to eat meat.
Some people who I've found that live the Word of Wisdom, who are not of our faith:
Kristina Bucaram-Carillo(FullyRaw youtube)
Life Generator(youtube)
Megan Elizebeth(EasytobeRaw youtube)
Ka Sundance(youtube)
These guys are gems, I want to meet them someday.
Bible Dictionary MEAT:
Anything to eat; food; a meal (not necessarily flesh) (Gen. 1:2930; Lev. 22:11, 13; 2 Sam. 13:5; Isa. 62:8; Ezek. 47:12; Heb. 3:17; Acts 16:34). In KJV meat is sometimes used to connote an offering made of grain, i.e., "meat offering," but no flesh is involved, as in Ex. 29:41; 30:9; Lev. 2:115. Cf. Alma 8:2122.
Don't get me started on dairy and eggs....no seriously....DON'T GET ME STARTED!
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I'm not coming from a place saying that everybody everywhere should abstain from meats! Far from it. I've prayed about the scriptures. And I've studied health for about 3/4ths of my life, so I'm just here to say, perhaps as a God fearing people we should look closer to those things we do in our life. Look closer at the things we put into our bodies. Think about the mark in your garments. Our bodies and spirits are connected. Food has a lot of bearing on who and what we are as a people. When you truly know what animals at the mass produced meat farms and slaughter houses go through, you'll come to understand that you are putting that energy of a suffering, depressed, excruciatingly sad animal in your body. You take on that energy. That dead energy. If you don't think food matters when it comes to spirituality, i invite you to think and pray about it more. It's in the scriptures. It's in our early church. It's a higher law that should be studied more than it currently is in the church IF PEOPLE ARE READY TO LIVE IT. The WOW is not given as a constraint or commandment. Think about that.
Oh goodness...
I'll write about the other points some other time! 
Oh boy are you guys in for an earful!
Thanks for welcoming me in to your circle! Love you all so very much!
~The iWitnessing Eternal Ponderer
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| Re: Right and Wrong [message #1428 is a reply to message #1412] |
Sun, 11 November 2012 01:39 |
Thrones
Messages: 7
Registered: May 2012
Location: Utah
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Junior Member |
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I must say that I agree with this notion that a bleak spiritual energy must attend and infect the meat obtained from mass producers. There is a spiritual aspect to all that we do and participate in, and when it comes to meat there is a difference between taking an animal in the wild, where it is in the midst of fulfilling the measure of its creation, and simply purchasing the flesh of an animal that sits for extended periods in a pile of its own feces, totally demoralized, prodded into a terrified panic, and then ultimately put out of its misery.
If our bodies are temples, then there is nothing that isn't temple work. This includes eating, and if we can't honestly say that our choices are cleansed from the blood and sins of this generation, then there is an extent of irresponsibility that we must answer for at some point.
I agree that the WoW likely isn't a commandment, especially when it's history of implementation is examined. But I don't think the Lord is interested in commanding us to be with him. I think he wants his children to honestly think through these notions surrounding his creations. I think he respects our requests according to how we respect what he has given to us, and the WoW is a big part of that.
I also think "wisdom" is often tied to Heavenly Mother in scripture. That notion throws another twist onto this health code, and I believe it has to do with the fact that we don't only have to be able to stand in the Father's presence. We're eventually going to have to stand in her's as well.
She likely births our spirits, and all spirit is matter. Hence, she likely has a material stake in how we treat our bodies.
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| Re: Right and Wrong [message #1429 is a reply to message #1428] |
Sun, 11 November 2012 07:34 |
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Dragon
Messages: 499
Registered: June 2010
Location: Earth
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Senior Member |
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iWitnessDragon, you said what pretty much everyone says when I bring up these topics.
I find it interesting that the people you talk to say mostly what I have said. That has not been my experience at all. Most members of the church aren't at a spiritual place where they've considered these things as important topics. Further, if most people actually DO believe as I do, then they certainly don't live up to their own understanding.
iWitnessI'm not coming from a place saying that everybody everywhere should abstain from meats!
Your essay on the consumption of flesh makes a valiant attempt to portray the slaying of any animal for consumption as evil. I find it hard to reconcile the above quote with everything else you wrote on the subject.
When I learned what is injected into cows, chickens, etc, during mass meat production, I knew it was affecting me physically. Thankfully I soon found myself in a place where I could raise my own beef. Watching that first cow be slaughtered was an experience I will never forget. Tasting the meat from that first cow was another memorable experience. Even today I cannot not help but think about the animal who was sacrificed so I could partake of the meat. I know through medical science my personal body chemistry burns through cholesterol like a race car burns through fuel. If I don't have a steady source of high octane, high protein food, I grow weak, and sick both physically and mentally. I need to eat meat.
I do wish everyone (especially those in the church) would visit the places where their meat comes from, as I said before. If we all did, there would be far less meat consumption. There is another aspect to this conversation which is missing. What do you eat in place of meat? My father has searched through many books, trying to find a vegetarian diet which provides the body with what it needs. He was very excited when he learned about a professional athlete who sticks to a vegetarian diet. The difficulties he was unable to resolve involved proper sources of protein and certain minerals found much more abundantly in meats (such as iron).
You also spoke of abundance, which is certainly available. We run a produce co-op so we can buy wholesale produce. We don't really make a profit from the group, just enough to pay for gas and vehicle wear and tear. We started out eating one share (about 35 lbs) every two weeks. It was hard at first to get through all those fruits and vegetables with only two people to eat it. Now we are getting 2 shares, and we run out of produce a day or two before the next co-op date. We had people join our group, only to quit after the first couple times, stating their family of five couldn't get through one share (or sometimes half a share) in two weeks!
As you may have noticed, I am somewhat passionate about this subject. I have dealt with it spiritually, physically, mentally, and emotionally. I have heard people saying we should all stop eating meat for more than twenty years. I have yet to be spiritually persuaded that anyone can find greater enlightenment by abstaining from meat. As with all subjects like this, if you abstain from meat, do it in obedience to God. If you partake of meat, do it in obedience to God with thanksgiving for what He provides.
- Dragon
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| Re: Right and Wrong [message #1431 is a reply to message #1429] |
Sun, 11 November 2012 10:20 |
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Denryu
Messages: 88
Registered: July 2012
Location: American Fork
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Indeed Dragon, it is obedience to God that is important. Simply because God has declared something clean or unclean for us is no reason to judge others by the same standard. It is not given to us to know what has been given to them.
Yes, in many things there is a standard that applies to all. But I also wonder if in other things the standard is tailored to the individual, in part to see if we will indeed OBEY rather than follow the herd.
Libertas optimas rarem, nunquam servili sub nexu.
"There is no gift like Liberty, therefore never live under slavery."
[Updated on: Sun, 11 November 2012 10:21] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Right and Wrong [message #1435 is a reply to message #1412] |
Sun, 11 November 2012 21:51 |
iWitness
Messages: 51
Registered: November 2012
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Member |
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[code]iWitness
I'm not coming from a place saying that everybody everywhere should abstain from meats!/code]
I am keeping D&C 89:13 in mind as well as D&C 49:21. That there is a time and a place, a season if you will, for those things.
I'm just glad I can talk about these things here without getting eaten alive. I'm content giving my view and having you give yours. Socrates liked to "birth" ideas. His ideas were NOT popular. ... I love Socrates... I've tried to do this with family and friends, even some church members, but I am scoffed at for my ideals.
Dragon, we simply disagree, and I'm OK with that  There is now a balance to this discussion here, and I thank you for that. If we all believed the same things here...there would be NOTHING to discuss, and those on the outside looking in would probably be...i don't know, upset maybe? at the things that were being discussed. THOSE CRAZY MORMONS!!! I failed to mention that you replied to the wearing of makeup, eating meat and unhealthy food, watching movies with foul material, and television in ways that others have responded to me. We're on the same page I think when it comes to magazines and sports. I've been on LDS/Mormon websites where if I brought up the things I did, I would have been eaten alive. Like you said, these things might be their favorite sins, and who likes to be accused of their favorite sins? I've been on LDS websites where people talk about how watching sports on the tube is a Christ-centered activity. I've been on LDS websites where they say it is desirable to get plastic surgery in the form of breast implants. I CRINGE when they say things like that. Elder Uchtdorf came out a while back(Pride and the Priesthood) and in a nutshell said how we should examine our participation of sports more closely. After he said that, my husband and I were sure we'd see people dropping the hobby. Nope. It didn't happen.
Why do I bring these topics up? Why are they important? Are they important?
If no one out there is saying:
"Think about the meat you eat and study what the scriptures have to say about it."
"Study Healthy food and try not to put garbage in your body."
"Study the Sadducees and Pharisees of the New Testament and make sure you're not a Latter-Day Pharisee or Sadducee; judging unrighteously."
"Do the television programs and commercials bring you closer to God and leave you feeling whole, full of light, and joyful? Or do they leave you feeling empty and temporarily happy? Can you trace your addiction to pornography back to something you viewed on television?"-note: my view of joy and happiness are two separate things.
"Do sports make you feel full of charity, brotherly love and kindness? What surrounds sports? Godliness?"
"Does makeup have ANYTHING to do with your eternal salvation? Does it make you feel good about yourself? Do you like what you see in the mirror without it? Do you think it "enhances" something that God has already made in His image? Does it take up a large portion of your time?"
"Would Christ watch the movies you are watching, whatever the rating may be? Is it helping you become a god or goddess? Is it wasting your time with cheap entertainment? Is it respectful to a woman's sacred body?"
Like Denryu put it,
[code]Simply because God has declared something clean or unclean for us is no reason to judge others by the same standard. It is not given to us to know what has been given to them.
Yes, in many things there is a standard that applies to all. But I also wonder if in other things the standard is tailored to the individual, in part to see if we will indeed OBEY rather than follow the herd./code]
I think that if God is going to give us something by means of The Holy Spirit and revelation, that there may be more to it. That is my purpose here, to bring to mind some things we may view in harmless ways, when really, in the long run, we'll end up somewhere far from where we intended to go. Satan loves to chain us in many ways shapes and forms. If we are indeed here to learn to be like our Father and Mother in heaven, wouldn't it be of detrimental value to think about each thing we do and weigh whether or not it is of God? I cannot keep my thoughts to myself anymore! I am 23 years old and I need to let people know what I am thinking! If I can't do it in person, I'll do it on the internet!
Let me assure you all that I DO NOT look down on any of you, or anyone else for that matter, if they participate in these things. Everyone is on a different path of progression, of COURSE! I'm not one of the sadducees and pharisees that goes around looking in peoples windows to find someone who is committing adultry...IN THE VERY ACT!!!! I like to think that I'd be more thoughtful than that... I respect your opinions, as I know you and I come from very different backgrounds, different upbringings, different thought-processes, and the like.
My second topic I would love to bring up is makeup.
Ashley, We understand something is very wrong here... Makeup is very problematic. It makes women feel pretty, valued, favored, gives them self-esteem, oft times making them feel prideful and of higher rank than those others who are without.
My whole life I've struggled with my self-esteem. The world says a woman should look a very specific way, and if you don't fit the worlds criteria of beauty, you're ugly.
How sad. We believe this. Don't you? You believe there are beautiful people and ugly people. Ugly on the outside. When I became closer and closer to God by living the Gospel, I found that I wore less and less makeup until all I was doing was drawing on eyebrows(I don't have eyebrows, it's hereditary). Because of the philosophies of men, we now believe that beauty is something found in the magazines, runways, faces and bodies of God's children. It is not so brothers and sisters. Each one of us is of infinite worth. Each one of us is beautiful beyond description. And here's the punch, it has nothing to do with a body. Every body is beautiful. Who is the Author of Lies? Why do we believe these lies? That we're not enough. That we're not ever going to measure up.
The makeup industry is a multi-billion dollar industry, making profit on the false assumption that what God has given you isn't enough, isn't beautiful and must be made up. The makeup industry wouldn't make money if women felt they were beautiful without makeup. I have met VERY VERY VERY few women who feel they look beautiful and comely without makeup.
Most women give the following justifications for wearing makeup:
"It enhances the natural beauty God has given me"
"I wear makeup to express my artistic nature."
"I'm not beautiful without it. It gives me self-esteem."
2 Nephi 13:16-24
[code] 16 Moreover, the Lord saith: Because the daughters of Zion are ahaughty, and bwalk with stretched-forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet--
17 Therefore the Lord will smite with a ascab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the Lord will bdiscover their secret parts.
18 In that aday the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments, and cauls, and round tires like the moon;
19 The chains and the bracelets, and the mufflers;
20 The bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets, and the ear-rings;
21 The rings, and nose jewels;
22 The changeable suits of apparel, and the mantles, and the wimples, and the crisping-pins;
23 The glasses, and the fine linen, and hoods, and the veils.
24 And it shall come to pass, instead of sweet smell there shall be stink; and instead of a girdle, a rent; and instead of well set hair, abaldness; and instead of a stomacher, a girding of sackcloth; bburning instead of cbeauty./code]
Now, I'm not perfect in these ways. I try with all I have, but the world is relentless. I am not perfect in coming out of Babylon and that great and spacious building yet. Some days I would fit the description of those who were ashamed and fell in to forbidden paths. I always get to the point where I can take all makeup off except eyebrows. Which defeats the purpose of what I'm talking about. People treat me different when I wear makeup and look like a supermodel. I hate that. I take it all off and people often ask if I'm feeling OK, or if I just don't have time to make myself up anymore because I have two small children. Makeup literally makes up, or makes an illusion of how one really looks. Take the makeup off the models and movie stars and they literally look like another person on the streets. You'd never know a difference. Makeup is worldly. I know that from personal experience.
I think I'm going to leave these topics alone for awhile. I think I've made my point for now, and I don't want to get kicked out of you awesome peoples circle just yet!!! I'll start commenting on the other threads, since that is what brought me here initially.
Thank you all for being the amazing Children of Light that you are. I love learning here! It's such an exciting time to be alive! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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| Re: Right and Wrong [message #1567 is a reply to message #1439] |
Mon, 10 December 2012 23:26 |
iWitness
Messages: 51
Registered: November 2012
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Denryu:
Yes, in many things there is a standard that applies to all. But I also wonder if in other things the standard is tailored to the individual, in part to see if we will indeed OBEY rather than follow the herd.
I see so many in the church plagued with pornography(This IS a plague following the Return of Christ. It has been witnessed to me by the Spirit). I see families torn apart. I see excruciating pain in both spouses involved. Every problem has a root. I AM NOT A HERD FOLLOWER. It goes against everything I've ever believed! It has never felt right to me to follow what the majority of people are doing. Sometimes this has got me into lots and lots of trouble, but mostly, it's blessed me. The world is doing very distinct things. The peaceable followers of Christ, I hope, are doing things very opposite from what the world is doing. I feel it important to discuss these things, because many of the things I listed in the first post are things that lead to pornography addiction. It leads to worshiping the god of this world, Satan. I know. I've lived both sides. I guess I just want to help people in the church realize that, like Jules said, All is not as it should be. I want to help. I want to prepare the world for the Second Coming of the Savior. Following the ways of the world, and not feeling the need to repent will only lead to anguish and misery. But should we impose or shove this down others throats? NO!!! When I was little, the only reason I was rebellious, was because Mormons wanted to shove their "stuff" down my throat. I wanted to know what was true for myself. I am not saying we should judge people for the worldly things they do. LOVE THE SINNER, BUT DETEST THE SIN. My intention is to help, and initially I was looking for ideas on how to help people see things, As they should be.
I'm serving in the Relief Society, and I feel very odd sometimes because I feel so differently than others about worldly matters, and I want to know how to talk about why I don't feel right about doing certain activities without sounding stuck up! There are plenty of people out there that view my husband and I as being stuck up, simply because we don't participate in what they're doing. We're not loud about these things verbally, it's our actions that make us appear as being stuck up.
I'm sure you guys understand the gist of what I'm saying, right? I wish Jules and Amonhi could speak more about the upcoming book. I am starved of input from others about worldly ordeals.
Dragon, I am a both-sides-of-the-coin-kinda-person, too. I sometimes say things against what others are saying, not because I feel that way, but because, as a Libra, I like to balance things continually. I do this without realizing it sometimes.... MY HUSBAND HATES THIS! "Why are you disagreeing with me?!"..."Well, because...I want brains from every walk of life to understand." Haha.
-iWitness
[Updated on: Mon, 10 December 2012 23:31] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Right and Wrong [message #1573 is a reply to message #1567] |
Tue, 11 December 2012 07:52 |
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Dragon
Messages: 499
Registered: June 2010
Location: Earth
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iWitness,
A few thoughts:
Matt 5:27-28Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
The viewing of pornography, then, is committing adultery in the heart. I can't recall ever hearing a G.A. point out this connection, but it is right there.
One thing I have learned through many tears is the differing levels of obedience. If a person is addicted to pornography, what difference does it make if they are watching some unacceptable PG-13 movies? That is like worrying about a small knife cut while there is a spear lodged in their chest. A member of my ward admitted once that while he was fighting the addition to porn, he saw how many PG-13 movies put the seed of desire back into his heart. Thus he was ready to stop watching them. I may watch that same PG-13 movie and truly be unaffected. But I have yet to see an R-rated movie which does not contain something I find objectionable.
Thus, discussing watching television four hours per day with someone who is still struggling with a marijuana addiction is fruitless. Sadly, it seems half the church members are struggling with the big things, causing the words from the pulpit to sound as if everyone is under condemnation. How can anyone discuss the steps of higher progression you have found in your own life when they THINK they are three floors below you? You would first have to help them see where they truly are, standing right next to you.
- Dragon
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| Re: Right and Wrong [message #2023 is a reply to message #1412] |
Thu, 17 January 2013 17:44 |
iWitness
Messages: 51
Registered: November 2012
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You guys are probably sick of me talking about veganism, but here's some quotes and I wanted to know what you think about them.
ENJOY!
Brigham Young, President of the Church, 6 April 1868"
A thorough reformation is needed in regard to our eating and drinking, and on this point I will freely express myself, and shall be glad if the people will hear, believe and obey. If the people were willing to receive the true knowledge from heaven in regard to their diet they would cease eating swine's flesh. I know this as well as Moses knew it, and without putting it in a code of commandments. ["Necessity of Obeying Counsel--Reformation in Eating and Drinking--Improvements--Female Relief Societies--Chastity," reported by G. D. Watt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 12 (Liverpool: Albert Carrington, 1869), p. 192.]
Brigham Young, President of the Church, 19 July 1877:
Swine's flesh . . . is more susceptible of diseases than any other flesh that we eat. It is not like fish or fowl. It is susceptible of disease of every kind, and will impregnate the system with disease far quicker than any other food that we eat. ["Relief Societies--Talk to Mothers--Improvement Societies--Domestic Matters--Training Children--Home Production--Silk Interests," reported by James Taylor, Journal of Discourses, vol. 19 (Liverpool: William Budge, 1878), p. 67.]
George Q. Cannon of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, 7 April 1868:
We are told that swine's flesh is not good, and that we should dispense with it; and we are told that flesh of any kind is not suitable to man in the summer time, and ought to be eaten sparingly in the winter. ["Word of Wisdom--Fish Culture--Dietetics," reported by David W. Evans, Journal of Discourses, vol. 12 (Liverpool: Albert Carrington, 1869), pp. 22122.]
Son-in-law of George Albert Smith, President of the Church
In the summer, he [President Smith] eats no meat, and even in the winter months he eats very little. [in Gerald E. Jones, PhD Dissertation entitled Concern for Animals as Manifest in Five American Churches: Bible Christian, Shaker, Latter-day Saint, Christian Scientist, and Seventh-Day Adventist (Provo, Utah: Brigham Young University, 1972), p. 111.]
Heber J. Grant, President of the Church, 1 October 1937
It is no hardship to me to eat meat sparingly. I lived for several years, during the winter time, in the Utah Hotel and I am sure that not more than ten or a dozen times did I order meat, and then it was some small lamb chops; no pork, no turkey, no chicken, no veal of any kind did I ever eat during that time at the cafeteria. [in Conference Report, October 1937, p. 14.]
Heber J. Grant, President of the Church, 4 April 1937
I think that another reason why I have very splendid strength for an old man is that during the years we have had a cafeteria in the Utah Hotel, I have not, with the exception of not more than a dozen times, ordered meat of any kind. On these special occasions I have mentioned I have perhaps had a small, tender lamb chop. I have endeavored to live the Word of Wisdom, and that, in my opinion, is one reason for my good health. [in Conference Report, April 1937, p. 15.]
Lorenzo Snow, President of the Quorum of the Twelve, 11 March 1897
[President Lorenzo Snow] introduced the subject of the Word of Wisdom, expressing the opinion that it was violated as much or more in the improper use of meat as in other things, and thought the time was near at hand when the Latter-day Saints should be taught to refrain from meat eating and the shedding of animal blood. [in Journal History of the Church, 11 March 1897, LDS Archives; see also Leonard J. Arrington, "An Economic Interpretation of the 'Word of Wisdom,' " Brigham Young University Studies, vol. 1, no. 1 (Provo, Utah: Brigham Young University Press, Winter 1959), p. 47.]
Jessie E. Smith, Wife of Joseph Fielding Smith, President of the Church
My husband doesn't eat meat [but rather] lots of fruit and vegetables. [in Gerald E. Jones, PhD Dissertation entitled Concern for Animals as Manifest in Five American Churches: Bible Christian, Shaker, Latter-day Saint, Christian Scientist, and Seventh-Day Adventist (Provo, Utah: Brigham Young University, 1972), p. 118.]
John A. Widstoe of the Quorum of the Twelve, 1937
It was shown early in the history of plant science, but after the Word of Wisdom was received, that plants contained all of the necessary food substances: Proteins (flesh-formers), fats, starches and other... Countless varieties of edible plants, vegetables, cereals, fruits and nuts are yielded by Mother Nature for man's daily food. . . .
Modern research has shown as already indicated that all of the necessary food constituents are found in plants. From that point of view, vegetarianism should be practicable. . . .
The Word of Wisdom does not contain a prohibition against meat eating, but urges its sparing use. Unfortunately, this advice is not generally observed, and man's health suffers in consequence. [The Word of Wisdom: A Modern Interpretation (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1937), pp. 126, 128, 135, 218; emphasis added.]
Brigham Young, President of the Church, 19 July 1877
Mothers, keep the children from eating meat. . . .
Now, sisters, will you take notice, and instruct those who are not here today, to adopt this rule--stop your children from eating meat, and especially fat meat. ["Relief Societies--Talk to Mothers--Improvement Societies--Domestic Matters--Training Children--Home Production--Silk Interests," reported by James Taylor, Journal of Discourses, vol. 19 (Liverpool: William Budge, 1878), pp. 6768; spelling modernized.]
Joseph Fielding Smith, President of the Twelve, 30 Dec. 1966
This is my answer to you in relation to President Brigham Young's statement that mothers should not feed their small children meat. Yes! Small children do not need the flesh of animals. May I add also that adults would be better if they would refrain from too much eating of meat. As far as I am concerned the eating of meat should be very sparingly. In fact I will be contented if the Millennium was to be ushered in next week. When it is, we will learn that the eating of meat is not good for us. Why do we feel that we do not have a square meal unless it is based largely on meat. Let the dumb animals live. They enjoy life as well as we do.
In the beginning the Lord granted man the use of the flesh of certain animals. See Genesis 9:1-6, but with so many fruits of the soil and from the trees of the earth, why cannot man be content? Naturally in times of famine the flesh of animals was perhaps a necessity, but in my judgment when the Millennium reaches us, we will live above the need of killing dumb innocent animals and eating them. If we will take this stand in my judgment we may live longer. [In a letter to a member sister in El Paso, Texas, dated 30 Dec. 1966, quoted in Health Is A Blessing: A Guide to the Scriptural Laws of Good Health, by Steven H. Horne, advance publication copy (Springville, Utah: Nature's Field, 1994), p. 34.]
Ezra Taft Benson, President of the Quorum of the Twelve, 4 March 1979
To a great extent we are physically what we eat. Most of us are acquainted with some of the prohibitions, such as no tea, coffee, tobacco, or alcohol. What need additional emphasis are the positive aspects--the need for vegetables, fruits, and grains, particularly wheat. In most cases, the closer these can be, when eaten, to their natural state--without overrefinement and processing--the healthier we will be. To a significant degree, we are an overfed and undernourished nation digging an early grave with our teeth, and lacking the energy that could be ours because we overindulge in junk foods. I am grateful to know that on this campus you can get apples from vending machines, that you have in your student center a fine salad bar, and that you produce an excellent loaf of natural whole-grain bread. Keep it up and keep progressing in that direction. We need a generation of young people who, as Daniel, eat in a more healthy manner than to fare on the "king's meat"--and whose countenances show it (see Daniel 1). ["In His Steps," 1979 Devotional Speeches of the Year (Provo, Utah: Brigham Young University Press, 1980), p. 62.]
LDS Prophets on vegetarianism
Ezra Taft Benson: To a great extent we are physically what we eat... What needs additional emphasis are the positive aspects [of the Word of Wisdom]--the need for vegetables, fruits, and grains. In most cases, the closer these can be, when eaten, to their natural state--without overrefinement and processing--the healthier we will be. To a significant degree, we are an overfed and undernourished nation digging an early grave with our teeth, and lacking the energy that could be ours because we overindulge in junk foods...we need a generation of young people who, as Daniel, eat in a more healthy manner than to fare on "king's meat"--and whose countenances show it. Teachings of.... P 476
John A. Widstoe: "It was shown in the history of plant science that plants contain all the necessary food substances; proteins, fats, starches and the carbohydrates, minerals, water and vitamins. The Great builder of the earth provided well for the physical needs of His children. Countless varieties of edible plants, vegetables, cereal, fruits and nuts are yielded by Mother Nature for man's daily food. If one uses meat it must be used sparingly and in winter or
famine only. They who wish to be well and gain the promised reward stated in the Word of Wisdom must obey all of the law, not just part of it as suits their whim or their appetite, or their notion of it's meaning." Word of Wisdom, A Modern Interpretation, 1950.
George Q. Cannon: "Our religion impresses upon us the importance of taking care of our bodies. There is a carelessness and an indifference even among us that are not found among many well-informed people in the world. Many of the Saints do not seem to be alive to the importance of those laws which pertain to well-being and preservation of the health and strength of the body. Their old traditions cling to them." Juvenile Instructor 27, May 15, 1982, pp. 690-91.
George Q. Cannon: "The question arises 'What then are we to eat if we drop swine's flesh and eat very little beef or mutton why, dear me, we shall starve to death.' In conversation with one of the
brethren the other day, the brother remarked `the diet of the poor is principally bread and meat, and if they dispense with meat, they will be reduced to very hard fare.' I reasoned with him that other articles of food could be raised more cheaply and in greater variety than the flesh of animals. It is an exceedingly difficult thing for most people to break off and discontinue cherished and long standing habits. We can have a variety in diet, and yet have simplicity. We
can have a diet that will be easily prepared, and yet have it healthful. We can have a diet that will be tasteful, nutritious and delightful to us and easy to digest" Journal of Discourses 12:221-4.
Brigham Young: "you mothers and daughters in Israel, You may think that these things are not of much importance;but let the people observe and lay the foundation for longevity, Do you think they will stuff themselves then with beef, pork.. No; you will find they will live as our first parents did, on fruits and on a little simple food, and they will never overload the stomachThe strength, power, beauty, and glory that once adorned the form and constitution of man have vanished away before the blighting influences of inordinate appetites and love of this world.These lay the foundation of disease and death in the systems of men, and the same are committed to their children, and another generation of feeble human beings is introduced into the world" Journal Discoures 12:37,118,119.
BAM! Got to love this! I looooooove being healthy! It makes me so happy!
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| Re: Right and Wrong [message #2041 is a reply to message #1412] |
Sun, 20 January 2013 23:07 |
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rdwhitaker
Messages: 118
Registered: December 2012
Location: Vancouver, Washington
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Senior Member |
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Wow, iWitness! You've touched upon some excellent topics for pondering. I have not yet read all of the responses - I had jump to the bottom and hurry and post a couple of thoughts.
We knew a woman who never watched TV, except for General Conference. She never read any books, except the scriptures and lesson material from church. No movies. and on and on. She never preached to anyone else about what they "should" or "should not" do. She just quietly followed her own course. My wife asked her one time why she was this way. She responded that life was too short to waste on things that didn't matter. One more thing about her. She could pray miracles like no one I've ever seen. She prayed for a new washer, she could only afford $150 for it, and could it please match her dryer in color? A couple of days later, she got exactly what she asked for. There were many other examples of her prayers being answered precisely and quickly. It was amazing. This woman became ill with cancer and passed away very rapidly. But she was completely at peace during her illness, and she knew she would never recover. She was okay with that. She was completely ready! She has been one of our biggest inspirations in life.
I have an aunt who we believe has had her calling and election made sure, and we believe she is among the Church of the Firstborn. She won't come out and tell us in so many words, but we have reasons to believe it. I was visiting her home one time and asked her about a television show she had on. She replied, "Oh, its just something on the public broadcasting channel. That's the only channel a person in my position is allowed to watch!"
I had to get those two things written for some reason. Now I will go back up and read the many responses to your post.
Oh - I understand completely why you enjoy the Elliaison site so much. It and one other one are my favorites.
Ryan
Don't . . . Quit . . . Trying!!
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| Re: Right and Wrong [message #2042 is a reply to message #1573] |
Sun, 20 January 2013 23:30 |
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rdwhitaker
Messages: 118
Registered: December 2012
Location: Vancouver, Washington
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Senior Member |
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Dragon wrote on Tue, 11 December 2012 06:52 One thing I have learned through many tears is the differing levels of obedience. If a person is addicted to pornography, what difference does it make if they are watching some unacceptable PG-13 movies? That is like worrying about a small knife cut while there is a spear lodged in their chest. A member of my ward admitted once that while he was fighting the addition to porn, he saw how many PG-13 movies put the seed of desire back into his heart. Thus he was ready to stop watching them. I may watch that same PG-13 movie and truly be unaffected. But I have yet to see an R-rated movie which does not contain something I find objectionable.
I wish I could find a quote on this, but I remember someone interviewing a person who worked in "Hollywood." He admitted that Hollywood tries to shape the nation's attitudes on things by how they treat them in movies. Thus, "R" rated movies are more likely to contain extreme violence and drug themes, because these are things Hollywood deems youth should not experience. BUT - Hollywood is much more likely to put sexual themes in "PG-13" movies, because it believes sexuality, sensuality, etc. is normal and our youth should not be discouraged from exploring these things. Basically he said "R" stands for violence and drugs, "PG-13" stands for sex.
So my wife and I are much more selective about what movies we watch than we have ever been.
Ryan
Don't . . . Quit . . . Trying!!
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| Re: Right and Wrong [message #2072 is a reply to message #1412] |
Wed, 23 January 2013 17:28 |
iWitness
Messages: 51
Registered: November 2012
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Daryl, If I read your reply correctly, I'm sorry I've come off as being puritan in my quest for greater understanding on what is conducive to the Spirit and what drives that same Spirit away.
My personal study of the scriptures has led me to believe that what "the ways of the world" are are some of the above mentioned on my first post. I'm not trying to impose the way I live my life on others. I'm trying to understand better why they are so generally accepted. Sorry to all if this thread is not coming across being that way. I think I brought up way too many topics initially. I truly feel that in conference they're warning us of a lot of these things, and I don't hear many people outside of conference talking about them. Elder Cooks last conference talk for example.
Dragon, addressing the knife cut and spear wound post you wrote, I truly feel like maybe we wouldn't even be wounded by the spears if we'd stay away from the knives. One example of that meaning, I don't feel like many guys would deal with pornography addiction if they'd stay away with the things that plant seeds in their hearts. I guess I feel this way because of the very experiences my husband and I have been through in our lives. I think those things that plant the seeds make all the difference.
rdwhitaker, Thank you for your thoughts. That lady you mentioned sounds a lot like my deceased Auntie. She was truly a remarkable woman(:
-iWitness
[Updated on: Wed, 23 January 2013 17:30] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Right and Wrong [message #2128 is a reply to message #1412] |
Wed, 30 January 2013 01:09 |
Called to Serve
Messages: 39
Registered: December 2012
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Just came across this thread and can't help commenting. I've had quite the experience with a lot of these things mentioned here.
Pertaining to make up, I don't have a big problem giving up make up. I think I usually look fine without it. But my thing is my eyebrows. I used to have a "Bert" from Bert and Ernie unibrow. I feel so much more attractive if I just pluck my eye brows. But that causes a bit of spiritual conflict for me. I mean, aren't we promised that not a hair of our heads will be lost? I've always cringed at that scriptures. What if it's true!
It's my only problem with appearance that I have anymore, but slowly that concern has faded away. I have come to accept my "overweight" body as beautiful, and so it's a lot easier to accept other things as well. I'm wondering when our view is entirely celestial what we will think about our bodies. Maybe the unibrow will look good to me then.
As for meat, I've grappled with this question for years. I've tried to stop eating it, but I've never been able to stick with it. Not long ago, I thought I would try giving up pork. For weeks after that, every time I went to buy beef at the store, I would accidentally buy pork instead. Finally I said, okay, Lord, I'll give up my attempt to stop eating pork! And then I no longer had that problem anymore.
I read Visions of Glory and in it Spencer says that the people lost the desire to eat meat as they ate the fruits available to them in Zion. I think I may just have to wait for that day. In the meantime, I am still learning about foods and which are healthy and which are not. I try to make things from scratch, when I can, so I'm not exposing my family to chemicals. It would help if I were a better cook. I'm currently interested in grains because they've been problematic for my babies. Whole wheat causes severe reactions in my kids until they are about 3. Even brown rice bothers them. I don't really understand why since the word of wisdom mentions "wheat for man" and calls grain the staff of life. I'm currently testing different grains that are not supposed to have been tampered with in any way, such as spelt and wild rice. So far, so good. (For those of you who know anything about the subject, yes, I did try soaking the grains and they still bothered my babies.)
And then there's the media choices. One day I was trying to rent a movie and was very frustrated because I couldn't find one that looked "good" meaning both interesting and relatively clean. Finally I prayed for help and I went straight to a movie that I had looked casually at before. I briefly checked the cover and I could have sworn I saw something on the label saying it wasn't rated. Anyway, I took it home, watched it, thoroughly enjoyed it, and yet wondered about it's rating because there were some things that I thought would have made it rated R. I checked for the rating again, and sure enough, it was rated R.
Years later I watched the movie again when it was offered on TV. It was in Korea and it was the full movie, unedited. I had avoided it until then since the first time I saw it because of its rating, but that day I felt like it would be okay to watch it again and I did so with the intent to try to figure out why I had been led to it before. I discovered that the questionable stuff was all insinuated. The rating had been given because of the frequent use of the "f" word. I'm still not quite sure what to make of this experience, but it really was quite a good movie. The ending just made you feel good inside.
So those are some of my experiences I've had with the topics at hand. I used to have a pretty set standard for a lot of these types of things, but as I've progressed spiritually, I've let go of those standards. I'm not sure it's bad to drink alcohol anymore. I'm not sure what music is the best to listen to. I'm not sure what the best use of time is. I just don't know anything about anything when it comes to what we should or shouldn't be "doing." I'm trying to discover these things by paying attention to the Spirit, but it's still quite the struggle.
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