| Necessary for Calling & Election/ 2nd comforter? [message #1236] |
Wed, 10 October 2012 17:57  |
amh
Messages: 16
Registered: October 2012
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Junior Member |
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Hi! I'm so glad to everyone who has shared their stories about recieving their C&E in the other forum area, they are wonderful and help me see it as a possiblity and attainable. .
So I have some questions to those who have experienced it. And want the input and opinions of those who hav not. To my understanding before you are able to have your C&E you have to be tried to see if you will overcome all things. Not necessarily having to experience all things but prove that you will follow God's will no matter what, or sacrifice that which is perfectly catered to you to try you to the fullest. An Abrahamic trial I suppose. Such as Nephi being commanded to kill Laban, Abraham offering up Isaac, Joseph Smith taking on polygamy (I believe) etc. so am I wrong about this? It seems logical to me and scripture seems to qualify the truth that those who are redeemed and saved are first tried. What are your experiences with your Abrahamic trial? If the spirit restrains you I don't need details just if it occurred and did you know it (before, during or just after)? Also what about those who have seen Christ? Or Angels? I always thought that you had to meet an equivalent of darkness before meeting a being of Light? For example- Moses being tempted by Satan before seeing The Lord, Joseph Smith being overtaken by a dark presence where he thought he would be overcome before he saw the Father and The Son, etc. so what are thoughts on this? Did you all experience these things too? Are these thing necessary?
Also- About a broken heart an a contrite spirit.. What is that? Is that necessary to meet Christ? I've heard that to experience Christ's love your heart has to be broken (fully open) and a hard (closed) heart cannot. Do we have to have something break our heart before we can let in what God would have our heart receive? And what is a contrite spirit? Is it simply a spirit that is aligned which the spirit of God? Please let me know ANY opinions/thoughts! Thanks so much!
[Updated on: Wed, 10 October 2012 22:32] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Necessary for Calling & Election/ 2nd comforter? [message #1249 is a reply to message #1247] |
Thu, 11 October 2012 08:55  |
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Dragon
Messages: 499
Registered: June 2010
Location: Earth
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Senior Member |
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Merriam Webster Online Contrite: feeling or showing sorrow and remorse for a sin or shortcoming.
To move past Abraham and answer your original question, Alma speaks at great length multiple times about the difference between a broken heart and a hard heart. At one point he even goes so far as to say someone with a hard heart, who refuses to accept more truth, will lose the truth they have until they know nothing of God, which is the definition of being bound by the chains of hell. On the other hand, if you keep your heart open, you will gain knowledge upon knowledge as your faith expands to include more and more truths. Eventually you will obtain the knowledge that Jesus Christ lives in the flesh.
For myself, I did not meet a being of darkness before meeting with an angel and receiving my calling and election. Rather, I demonstrated the power of my faith to the point I could not be contained by the veil. The being of darkness came the following night. But by then, I'd already received the promise. I have postulated in another thread the possibility of an anti-C&E being part of the process, but for me that experience came later.
In order to obtain your C&E, work out your salvation with fear and trembling before God, being aware of the awful state you are in if you do not accept the atonement. Then, move forward with love, as perfect love casteth out ALL fear. If you do this, soon you will see Christ in the flesh. This is the promise of the scriptures.
- Dragon
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| Re: Necessary for Calling & Election/ 2nd comforter? [message #2223 is a reply to message #1236] |
Thu, 21 February 2013 15:24 |
John
Messages: 4
Registered: February 2013
Location: California
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Junior Member |
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I think we must always remember the purpose of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. To bring us to partake of the fruit (eternal life) from the tree of life (Christ). The process begins with faith in the Lord, repentance, baptism, the gift of the Holy Ghost. Enduring to the end is a principle of faith. We must endure to the end of our faith. Who is the finisher of our faith? Jesus Christ himself.
The portion of offering a contrite spirit and a broken heart refers more specifically to the gift of the Holy Ghost (1st comforter) or being baptized by fire/born again/born of the spirit/remission of sins/justified/etc. Then do what all the BOM guys do to retain their remission of sins: preach gospel, clothe the naked, feed hungry, administer to the sick, etc (mosiah 4). With proving yourself then everything will work itself out for receiving the 2nd comforter or the promise of eternal life or the perfect day (d&c 50:24).
A little off topic: The portion of Christ and His Father making their abode as spoken of in John 14 (to be in the Father presence) is a greater blessing of which I cannot discuss on this thread. There will always be a trial of faith to be had to augment our faith for each endowment of pure knowledge but the trial of "exceeding faith" has to do with entering into the presence of the Father (must have the fulness of the 2nd grand order to do so, JST Gen. 14:31). I personally think Abraham was going for that and was well passed his initial calling and election made sure (2nd comf.) before his great trial.
Can you be in Their presence spiritually, in vision, or hear either of Their voices prior to ordinances? YES! That is why Joseph says, in reference to the 1st Vision, that it was a "vision" like that of Paul on the road to demascus.
I do not pretend to know everything on the subject, so any concerns or comments are welcomed..thank you guys!
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| Re: Necessary for Calling & Election/ 2nd comforter? [message #2224 is a reply to message #2223] |
Thu, 21 February 2013 15:39 |
FreddyV
Messages: 50
Registered: December 2012
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John wrote on Thu, 21 February 2013 15:24
A little off topic: The portion of Christ and His Father making their abode as spoken of in John 14 (to be in the Father presence) is a greater blessing of which I cannot discuss on this thread. There will always be a trial of faith to be had to augment our faith for each endowment of pure knowledge but the trial of "exceeding faith" has to do with entering into the presence of the Father (must have the fulness of the 2nd grand order to do so, JST Gen. 14:31). I personally think Abraham was going for that and was well passed his initial calling and election made sure (2nd comf.) before his great trial.
That is so amazing that you shared that thought about "exceeding faith." I have been contemplating this topic for quite some time now. I notice the same qualification is mentioned in Alma 13.
Quote: And again, my brethren, I would cite your minds forward to the time when the Lord God gave these commandments unto his children; and I would that ye should remember that the Lord God ordained priests, after his holy order, which was after the order of his Son, to teach these things unto the people.
2 And those priests were ordained after the order of his Son, in a manner that thereby the people might know in what manner to look forward to his Son for redemption.
3 And this is the manner after which they were ordained--being called and prepared from the foundation of the world according to the foreknowledge of God, on account of their exceeding faith and good works; in the first place being left to choose good or evil; therefore they having chosen good, and exercising exceedingly great faith, are called with a holy calling, yea, with that holy calling which was prepared with, and according to, a preparatory redemption for such.
As you mentioned in Genesis 14, when one receives this priesthood, one has the power by faith to stand in the presence of God. I personally feel that anyone who stood in the presence of God prior to this life,(Abraham 3) was endowed with this priesthood after the manner that is described in Alma 13. Yet, we must come back to it here in this life.
I'd love to hear any more you might offer to share on this subject.
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