Home » Calling and Election Made Sure » How You Received Your Calling and Election Made Sure » A question to those who have received C&E (What about opposition? Abrahamic trial, etc.)
| A question to those who have received C&E [message #1231] |
Wed, 10 October 2012 14:17  |
amh
Messages: 16
Registered: October 2012
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Junior Member |
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Hi! I'm so glad to everyone who has shared their stories they are wonderful and help me see it as a possiblity and attainable.  . So I have some questions to those who have experienced it. To my understanding before you are able to have your C&E you have to be tried to see if you will overcome all things. Not necessarily having to experience all things but prove that you will follow God's will no matter what, or sacrifice that which is perfectly catered to you to try you to the fullest. An Abrahamic trial I suppose. Such as Nephi being commanded to kill Laban, Abraham offering up Isaac, Joseph Smith taking on polygamy (I believe) etc. so am I wrong about this? It seems logical to me and scripture seems to qualify the truth that those who are redeemed and saved are first tried. What are your experiences with your Abrahamic trial? If the spirit restrains you I don't need details just if it occurred and did you know it (before, during or just after)? Also what about those who have seen Christ? Or Angels? I always thought that you had to meet an equivalent of darkness before meeting being of Light? For example- Moses being tempted by Satan before seeing The Lord, Joseph Smith being overtaken by a dark presence where he thought he would be overcome before he saw the Father and The Son, etc. so what are thoughts on this? Did you all experience these things too? Also anyone who hasn't had their C&E can chime in about their ideas and take on these topics. But I think I'm going to take this topic and put it in the deep doctrine area cause I think it belongs their and not here , but I don't know how to delete this topic so I will jut leave it here haha.
[Updated on: Wed, 10 October 2012 17:52] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: A question to those who have received C&E [message #1353 is a reply to message #1276] |
Sun, 28 October 2012 16:48  |
bishop
Messages: 144
Registered: July 2010
Location: USA
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Senior Member |
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This is an excellent question. I used to believe that one had to experience an Abrahamic trial to receive CE. I, myself, did. But as I see others who have received, both scriptural and those whom I've observed, I am not sure that the trial has to be dramatic. Jacob, Enos, Mormon, Moroni in the Book of Mormon are examples. I suppose of these, the best is Enos, whose CE came during a very earnest prayer. In my personal case, I was convinced that I had to go thru a major trial for the same reasons you stated above. But when I received the CE, the Spirit witnessed to me that the Lord already knew that I would be true and faithful no matter what. The trial was for my own benefit-to prove to myself that I would be faithful no matter what.
The following scripture may shed some light on this question:
D&C 93:1 Verily, thus saith the Lord: It shall come to pass that every soul who forsaketh his sins and cometh unto me, and calleth on my name, and obeyeth my voice, and keepeth my commandments, shall see my face and know that I am;
This scripture does not tell us that we must be tried as Abraham-only that we must obey his voice, etc. I believe this tells us as Zephyr pointed out, that what it means to obey his voice, in particular, varies according to the needs of the individual. This includes whatever our experiences were in pre-earth life.
Your idea that we must be tried as Abraham probably comes from the Lectues on Faith: "It is in vain for persons to fancy to themselves that they are heirs with those, or can be heirs with them, who have offered their all in sacrifice, and by this means obtained faith in God and favor with him so as to obtain eternal life, unless they, in like manner, offer unto him the same sacrifice, and through that offering obtain the knowledge that they are accepted of him."
This is one of the places I picked up the belief. Of course, God is the only one who can judge what it means to offer one's all in sacrifice.
But, I have observed that there are many who have not had to go thru such a trial as some scriptural characters. It is reasonable to believe that God knows our souls without some terrible trial, but with our obeying his voice, etc. I have to believe that during the Millennium there will be a majority of faithful who will have the Second Comforter [and therefore their CE] who will not be tried as Abraham. I believe that this blessing can be handed down from righteous father to son as it was from Lehi to Jacob and then Jacob to Enos. When it is handed down in this manner, it becomes like a testimony is handed down from parents to children without the trials that the parents had to go through to gain that testimony.
I hope you find these thoughts helpful on this subject. It is an excellent question, which I have pondered a lot.
Bishop
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| Re: A question to those who have received C&E [message #2053 is a reply to message #1231] |
Mon, 21 January 2013 15:38 |
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brrgilbert
Messages: 282
Registered: December 2012
Location: Nampa, Idaho
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Senior Member |
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Understanding what an Abrahamic trial is and having experienced several which I claim fall into this category, I am of the opinion, (and I don't know because I am only one person and my experiences may be unique,) that such trials and tests are a prerequisite for experiencing the calling and election / more sure word of prophecy phenomena of being accepted of the Lord. It is with this motivation that I desire to share this understanding.
By way of foreword, please understand that Heavenly Father knows ALL things from the onset or beginning. He knows the outcome of all such tests and trials; therefore, the results are not for His gain or to His satisfaction. This could be compared to the proper perspective to be had for an examination. It is not for the intent of the Instructor that such tests are given, but rather a measure of the thoroughness of the student in their preparation. It is more for the benefit of the student to learn what he or she lacks. Such is the case in such experiences for us, I believe.
(Doctrine and Covenants 101:1-5.)
1 Verily I say unto you, concerning your brethren who have been afflicted, and persecuted, and cast out from the land of their inheritance--
2 I, the Lord, have suffered the affliction to come upon them, wherewith they have been afflicted, in consequence of their transgressions;
3 Yet I will own them, and they shall be mine in that day when I shall come to make up my jewels.
4 Therefore, they must needs be chastened and tried, even as Abraham, who was commanded to offer up his only son.
5 For all those who will not endure chastening, but deny me, cannot be sanctified.
Please note that we are told that we are to be tried even as Abraham (likening the scriptures unto ourselves) and that, according to the last verse, those who do not endure this chastening cannot be sanctified. One of the definitions of sanctification is to be set apart for a holy purpose. I submit to you that having your calling and election made sure is a definite sanctifying principle, well worth the "examination" period. That scriptural citation gives credence to my assertion that such a test is necessary in receiving one's higher assurance.
The question begs itself, "What is the nature of an Abrahamic Test?"
In its essence, an Abrahamic test is a trial of devotion to determine where a participant's priority truly resides. It generally involves the most powerful emotion there is; that of LOVE. It is a "stretching of the heart strings," as some of the Brethren have stated, in that a conflict is created between two seemingly equal beings, objects, concepts, or ideals that are diametrically opposed necessitating a choice or resolution as to which priority takes precedence. It is not easily resolved, but reveals the deep and intricate values and devotions that a soul can muster. It is, seemingly, all that can be afforded and a surrendering of all on the altar of sacrifice. Such was the case with Abraham and such is the case when a heart is neigh drawn assunder because of the intensity.
An Abrahamic test is; therefore, a matter of the heart.
(1 Samuel 16:7.)
7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.
Who knows better on how to create such a predicament than God.
(Alma 18:30-32.)
30 And Ammon said unto him: The heavens is a place where God dwells and all his holy angels.
31 And king Lamoni said: Is it above the earth?
32 And Ammon said: Yea, and he looketh down upon all the children of men; and he knows all the thoughts and intents of the heart; for by his hand were they all created from the beginning.
It may prove beneficial for some to review Abrahams proceedings in Genesis 22: 1-19. To understand the intensity of the conflict created for Abraham, consider the dilemma: revelation from God to sacrifice your long sought for heir and the commandment to not kill.
(Doctrine and Covenants 132:36.)
36 Abraham was commanded to offer his son Isaac; nevertheless, it was written: Thou shalt not kill. Abraham, however, did not refuse, and it was accounted unto him for righteousness.
To the casual reader, it may seem like Abraham spent little time in resolving this conflict. In reality this was not the case. (Much like Nephi's dilemma in slaying Laban.) How, then, did Abraham tip the scales in favor of obeying personal revelation versus a prior commandment; revelation versus tradition or, sacrificing one love for another of seemingly equal value; Love of God versus Love of Isaac. The key:
(Hebrews 11:17-19.)
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
Abraham trusted in God. He resolved the dilemma by having faith that God couldn't lie and would fulfill His promises previously made by resurrecting Isaac. He made the decision; the value by sacrificing NOW for THEN when it concerned Isaac.
To resolve the severing of the heart; therefore, resolve the problem by trusting in God. I can personally attest that sometimes the knife isn't stayed. The NOW may be lost, but THEN it may be rewarded 7 or 10 or 100 or ?? fold. Such is the worth of obtaining eternal life.
"I must endure the presence of a few caterpillars if I wish to become acquainted with the butterflies."
The Little Prince by St. Exupery
[Updated on: Mon, 21 January 2013 16:04] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: A question to those who have received C&E [message #2056 is a reply to message #2053] |
Mon, 21 January 2013 21:35 |
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rdwhitaker
Messages: 118
Registered: December 2012
Location: Vancouver, Washington
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Senior Member |
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Excellent points! I agree completely. What you say ties in perfectly with a book I am now reading ("Looking Beyond the Mark") where the author, Max Skousen, points out that the mark is LOVE, and that obtain this love by yielding ourselves to the enticings of the Spirit, by losing ourselves and our egos for the Lord's sake, and by being submissive, meek and humble. He says that that seems too simple to many people so they go looking for something more profound, more egoistic, more knowledgeable, something they imagine they will win after they expend all their effort and energy to learn and obtain. Putting it simply, they prefer Wielding over Yielding.
Ryan
Don't . . . Quit . . . Trying!!
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| Re: A question to those who have received C&E [message #2121 is a reply to message #2056] |
Tue, 29 January 2013 09:20 |
bishop
Messages: 144
Registered: July 2010
Location: USA
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Senior Member |
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rdwhitaker is absolutely correct. I have learned that the key to C&E is learning to love others more than self, truly. Love is the key to all spiritual gifts and to spirituality. We know so little of the power of love and its many and varied aspects. But when one learns to love unselfishly and is willing to sacrifice himself/herself for the benefit of others, they have reached the level of spirituality of C&E.
By the way, I used to believe that Abraham offering Isaac was when he received his C&E. But if you read his story carefully, you come to understand that when he refused to denounce his beliefs and was sacrificed by the Egyptians, that is when he received his C&E.
Bishop
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