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| The Coming Day [message #772] |
Mon, 30 July 2012 09:21  |
Amonhi
Messages: 237
Registered: June 2010
Location: Las Vegas, NV.
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Senior Member |
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I wrote the following as part of my recent post in the thread, "The thinking has been done for us". But then I realized that it would turn the focus of that topic away from where it needs to go and that this topic is really a new topic. So, please read this topic in context with my post in the other topic.
- Begin new topic -
Seeing the end from the beginning can often give us great direction and understanding. The church cannot exist in all 3 kingdoms and spheres at the same time as it does today. It acts as a bridge between spheres and keeps one foot in one sphere/kingdom and one foot in another.
This causes a division between those in the church who are of one sphere and those of another. Both doctrines are taught at the same time to some degree and there is disagreement between those of the Telestial and those of the Terrestrial and those of the Celestial.
The Church is currently in a gathering state and is mainly in the Telestial world and teaches those doctrines that pertain to that world and state. The Preparatory Gospel. It is central to our worship today as the majority of the church membership strive to obtain the fulness of the Telestial, (Holy Ghost) not realizing that once they do, they will then begin seeking the fulness of the Terrestrial, (Second Comforter).
Here is a secret... Adam fell from the Terrestrial/Garden of Eden to the Telestial/Lone and dreary world. Christ came to redeem/save man from the fall. All the principles, ordinances and doctrines of the Aaronic pristhood upto and including the atonement of Christ attempt to redeem us from the fall of Adam. Began to be taught immediately after Adam fell.
When the world returns to a Terrestrial state/the Millennium, then the world has been redeemed/saved from the effects of the fall. There will be no sin and no death.
By death I mean spirit and Body separation. Their will be a twinkling which is being changed instantly from mortal to immortal, for those who are mortal. Others will have free access to the symbolic tree of life. And having no sin, there is no concern of them living forever in their sins.
Those who are born and raised in the Millennium will not experience the fall as we have. Children will begin to be raised without sin to salvation, after parents have learned how to raise them in this way. They will never be taught the principles, doctrines and ordinances of the Aaronic priesthood. Without sin, there is no repentance, without repentance, there is no baptism for the remission of sins. Without sin and these ordinances, there is no need for the atonement.
Right now, the church's main focus is salvation through the Aaronic priesthood with the focus on the atonement of Christ as the fulcrum of every jot and tittle of the Aaronic Priesthood.
What will happen to the LDS church when the Millennium begins and those who have there calling and election made sure come with Christ in the clouds as the majority of the church membership with all the other churches of the world sit and watch?
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| Re: The Coming Day [message #781 is a reply to message #777] |
Mon, 30 July 2012 14:41  |
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Dragon
Messages: 499
Registered: June 2010
Location: Earth
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Senior Member |
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Starting with the last question first, the LDS Church will continue to function during the Millenium. It is a preparatory Gospel, to bring men out of the telestial, through the terrestrial, and to the gate of the celestial. There will be many on the earth living in a terrestrial state during the millenium. The LDS Church will serve as a guide and teacher, sort of like a temple prep course. After all, that's all it was ever intended to be.
D&C 13:1 Upon you my fellow servants, in the name of Messiah I confer the Priesthood of Aaron, which holds the keys of the ministering of angels, and of the gospel of repentance, and of baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; and this shall never be taken again from the earth, until the sons of Levi do offer again an offering unto the Lord in righteousness.
I have asked church leaders half a dozen times over the years what the last part means, and they always say it means the Aaronic priesthood won't be taken from the earth. Ever. Yet as I studied the scriptures more, I find a time prophesied in the future when the Sons of Levi will resume animal sacrifice near the temple at Jerusalem. By the time this happens, the following will have already occurred:
144,000 bring countless host into the Church of the Firstborn
WW3, WW4, World Wide Plague
Build Zion, 10 Tribes Return, 2 Prophets in Jerusalem
144,000 travel to Jerusalem to rebuild Israel
Reign of the Prince of Peace, King David
Right about there, in the progression, before Jesus returns, but after the Church of the Firstborn has millions upon the earth for several years (5 to 40). Then we find the first opportunity to fulfill the scripture and have the Aaronic Priesthood return to it's proper place, as only among the sons of Aaron, the tribe of Levi. At that day, they alone will possess the Aaronic Priesthood. It will be taken from the rest of the earth, and returned to its proper place, or RESTORED.
- Dragon
[Updated on: Mon, 30 July 2012 14:42] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The Coming Day [message #792 is a reply to message #777] |
Tue, 31 July 2012 19:40 |
BringerOfJoy
Messages: 10
Registered: July 2012
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Junior Member |
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BringerOfJoy wrote on Mon, 30 July 2012 12:46Amonhi wrote on Mon, 30 July 2012 08:21
Without sin, there is no repentance, without repentance, there is no baptism for the remission of sins. Without sin and these ordinances, there is no need for the atonement.
This begs the question, then: Why are there symbols of the atonement in the terrestrial section of the endowment?
Ok, I'm going to return to this question using the Old Testament tabernacle since we aren't really free to discuss the current temple all that much.
In the Holy Of Holies, there was the mercy seat; also referred to as the seat of Atonement. Now, if the Holy of Holies represents the Celestial Kingdom; then why would you have that great symbol of the atonement present there if there is no need for the atonement beyond the preparatory gospel? I should also add that the symbols of the atonement in the form of the bread and wine are in the Holy Place/Terrestrial room.
[Updated on: Tue, 31 July 2012 19:47] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The Coming Day [message #868 is a reply to message #865] |
Wed, 08 August 2012 19:52 |
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Dragon
Messages: 499
Registered: June 2010
Location: Earth
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Senior Member |
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Who is it that you think will be doing the missionary work after WWIV? After the day the LDS Church calls all missionaries home, and after the period of trials, who do you think the Lord will send to the Heathen Nations? At that time, the wars will only reduce because all major world powers will be overthrown, except the Kingdom of God as a political power. There will be famines, pestilence, and continual fighting between tribal nations. Who would the Lord send out into such a world? Certainly not the 19 year old boys we currently send. And definitely not the Senior Couples. No, the missionary work of that day will be based in Jerusalem, led by the 144,000 and their fellow members of the Church of the Firstborn. They will be preaching the way Alma the Younger did under similar circumstances later in his life. They will teach not only Faith, Repentance, and Baptism, but how to have the baptism of Fire and the Holy Ghost, how to have the fruit of the tree, not just the seed. What's more, they will be impervious to weapons, as death cannot stop them. Poisons will have no effect, and the famines will bother them only a little. These will be stalwart members of the Church of the Firstborn, not recent converts into its ranks.
- Dragon
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| Re: The Coming Day [message #869 is a reply to message #868] |
Wed, 08 August 2012 21:41 |
zephyr
Messages: 129
Registered: May 2012
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Senior Member |
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Dragon wrote on Wed, 08 August 2012 21:52
No, the missionary work of that day will be based in Jerusalem, led by the 144,000 and their fellow members of the Church of the Firstborn. They will be preaching the way Alma the Younger did under similar circumstances later in his life. They will teach not only Faith, Repentance, and Baptism, but how to have the baptism of Fire and the Holy Ghost, how to have the fruit of the tree, not just the seed. What's more, they will be impervious to weapons, as death cannot stop them. Poisons will have no effect, and the famines will bother them only a little. These will be stalwart members of the Church of the Firstborn, not recent converts into its ranks.
A General Authority told me something similar about the 144,000. But the base in Jerusalem is something new to me. Where can I read more about it?
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| Re: The Coming Day [message #870 is a reply to message #869] |
Wed, 08 August 2012 21:57 |
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Denryu
Messages: 88
Registered: July 2012
Location: American Fork
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Member |
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zephyr wrote on Wed, 08 August 2012 21:41Dragon wrote on Wed, 08 August 2012 21:52
No, the missionary work of that day will be based in Jerusalem, led by the 144,000 and their fellow members of the Church of the Firstborn. They will be preaching the way Alma the Younger did under similar circumstances later in his life. They will teach not only Faith, Repentance, and Baptism, but how to have the baptism of Fire and the Holy Ghost, how to have the fruit of the tree, not just the seed. What's more, they will be impervious to weapons, as death cannot stop them. Poisons will have no effect, and the famines will bother them only a little. These will be stalwart members of the Church of the Firstborn, not recent converts into its ranks.
A General Authority told me something similar about the 144,000. But the base in Jerusalem is something new to me. Where can I read more about it?
Isaiah 2:3
And many people shall go and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
I'd also guess that this means kings and queens will be centered in Zion, and priests and priestesses in Jerusalem (?) That's my arm of flesh understanding, I haven't gotten confirmation on that.
Libertas optimas rarem, nunquam servili sub nexu.
"There is no gift like Liberty, therefore never live under slavery."
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| Re: The Coming Day [message #993 is a reply to message #777] |
Sun, 26 August 2012 01:42 |
Amonhi
Messages: 237
Registered: June 2010
Location: Las Vegas, NV.
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Senior Member |
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[quote]BringerOfJoy wrote on Mon, 30 July 2012 12:46Amonhi wrote on Mon, 30 July 2012 08:21
Without sin, there is no repentance, without repentance, there is no baptism for the remission of sins. Without sin and these ordinances, there is no need for the atonement.
This begs the question, then: Why are there symbols of the atonement in the terrestrial section of the endowment?
That is a good question...
I admit that at present I have questions in this area. There seem to be contradictions which have not been resolved in my mind. I do know for certain that the in the Millennium we return to a Terrestrial state which is to say redeemed from the fall and we begin to focus on non-salvation type stuff. The children born in the Millennium are/will be raised without sin to salvation. So they are beyond the fall. Those in the Millennium will be worthy of that state of being which is the minimum requirement for the Terrestrial Kingdom = Testimony of Christ/Love.
The Telestial are judged by their works, good or evil, and they are the ONLY kingdom that is judged by works. (D&C 76) But the Terrestrial are not. They are covered by Grace. But they have not been "valiant in the testimony of Christ unto obtaining the crown"/promise of the crown.
There is much more to this, but it is 1:00am and I need to go to bed...
Quote:Quote:What will happen to the LDS church when the Millennium begins and those who have there calling and election made sure come with Christ in the clouds as the majority of the church membership with all the other churches of the world sit and watch?
I think I'll let YOU answer that Amonhi, but if the answer is that all the "watchers" get burned up; then that doesn't mesh very well with the Terrestrial section of D&C 76 where there are the "Honorable Men" of the earth that make it to the Terrestrial kingdom. Or does it?
LOL, no, they won't be burned up. Only the Telestial will not survive the transition into the Millennium and the symbolic "Baptism of Fire". The Majority of the LDS church will be taught with the rest of the remaining world about the higher Celestial principles and teachings.
In other words,The Firstborn will teach the general membership of the LDS along with all the other religions/people who have not yet received their promise in a great effort to raise them from the Terrestrial to the Celestial.
They will not be teaching them to accept Christ because they already have...Old news, let's leave the foundation and move on to perfection...
"Heb. 6:1-3" 1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.
Peace,
Amonhi
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| Re: The Coming Day [message #995 is a reply to message #777] |
Sun, 26 August 2012 04:01 |
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Dragon
Messages: 499
Registered: June 2010
Location: Earth
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Senior Member |
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Bringer of JoyThis begs the question, then: Why are there symbols of the atonement in the terrestrial section of the endowment?
Somehow I forgot to get around to the first question until now. In the Terrestrial state, we are still keeping commandments, but our motivation for doing so has changed from one of fear to one of love. Mercy reigns, as a result of the Atonement. In the Telestial, Justice lays claim upon all. Thus, in the Terrestrial, we are getting to know Christ better. We are no longer strangers, but servants, and not yet sons/daughters and friends. We have the comforter in our lives as a companion rather than a distant acquaintance. But the Savior is still a distant acquaintance. Those in the Terrestrial Kingdom have not yet had their Calling and Election made Sure because there is still a partial desire to do evil. Thus, there is still room for the atonement to cover the sins of which we repent and change our hearts. When our hearts have been sufficiently changed so there is no more desire to do evil, we have met one of the requirements for C&E.
I do not believe every child born during the Millennium will be born without the law, because the law is still in effect in the Terrestrial Kingdom. Justice and Mercy are in harmony there. It is an area of learning to Love the Lord, and an area of progression and change of heart. When I took martial arts, I was taught an important lesson. My first test, to move from white belt to yellow belt was relatively easy compared to later tests. At the end of the test, we were told to close our eyes and remove our white belts. The yellow belts were placed beside us, and we were asked to put on the belt we felt we had earned. Naturally, I put on the yellow belt, feeling I had passed the test. The instructor then told us we had all chosen wrong, for everyone was wearing a yellow belt. In the dojo, he said, we do not wear the belt we have earned, we wear the belt we are learning. When we enter the dojo, we have earned nothing, having learned nothing. Yet we are still given a white belt. The white belt is not meaningless, but it does not mean we have earned it by simply walking in the door.
When people are born in a carnal state, they have earned nothing. They have not earned the Telestial Kingdom, but they operate under the laws of the Telestial Kingdom until they are reborn and have a desire to follow Christ. Then they have earned the Telestial Kingdom, but are permitted to live the laws of the Terrestrial Kingdom. God knows we will transgress these laws as we are still learning and growing. When we have learned to follow the laws of the Terrestrial Kingdom, we have earned that Kingdom. Fear is gone and only Love motivates us. Then we are permitted to live a Celestial law, even though we have not yet earned it. I hope this helps.
- Dragon
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