Home » The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints » LDS Deep Doctrine » The Divine Brotherhood of the Universe (In depth description of the Light of Christ)
| The Divine Brotherhood of the Universe [message #379] |
Fri, 25 May 2012 21:53  |
zephyr
Messages: 129
Registered: May 2012
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Senior Member |
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This is from an unpublished manuscript of BH Roberts. It almost ended up in a church manual, enjoy:
"This Light then, the Light of Truth and named for us men "the Light of Christ"--"which proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space,"--is also God, even the Spirit of God, or of the Gods, for it proceeds forth or vibrates, or radiates from all the Gods--from all who have partaken of the One Divine Nature--hence "the God of all other Gods"--mentioned by our Prophet of the New Dispensation (Doc. and Cov. sec. cxxi) "the God of Gods," "the Lord of Lords," proceeding from MANY yet ONE! Incarnated in all personal Deities, yet proceeding forth from them, to extend the one God into all space that He might be in and through all things; bearing all the powers in earth and sun and stars; world-sustaining power and guiding force. Bearing all the mind and spiritual attributes of God into the immensity of space, becoming God everywhere present-- omni-present; and everywhere present with power--omnipotent; extending everywhere the power of God; also All-Knowing; All-Seeing; All-Hearing--Omniscient! Bearing forth in fact all the attributes of Deity: Knowledge, Wisdom, Judgment, Truth, Holiness, Mercy--every characteristic or quality of all Divine Intelligences--since they are one; and this Divine Essence of spirit becoming "the Light which is in all things, that giveth life to all things which is the law by which all things are governed, even the POWER of God, who sitteth upon His throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things." United in this Divine Essence, or Spirit is the mind of all Gods; and all the Gods being incarnations of this Spirit, become God in unity; and by the incarnation of this Spirit in Divine Personages, they become the Divine Brotherhood of the Universe, the ONE GOD, though made of many. "
(As quoted in gosplink.com)
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| Re: The Divine Brotherhood of the Universe [message #418 is a reply to message #379] |
Mon, 28 May 2012 21:31  |
Seeker
Messages: 244
Registered: June 2010
Location: Las Vegas
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Senior Member |
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Great quote! I have been taught this too via personal revelation. As has Bishop. We have discussed this Original God which is spirit that fills everything and that created all the other Gods. It unites all things and makes all things ONE as it is one with all things, except perhaps for those things which have no light. Thanks for the quote. I've never seen any quotes that address this before.
~ Seeker
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| Re: The Divine Brotherhood of the Universe [message #426 is a reply to message #418] |
Tue, 29 May 2012 14:16 |
SirExcedrin
Messages: 7
Registered: May 2012
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Junior Member |
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 wow! Is there someone here that could help further unfold my understanding provided by that amazing quote from BHR above? It brings to mind a thought I've had lately stemming from:
Quote:Unto whom I have committed the keys of my kingdom, and a dispensation of the gospel for the last times; and for the fulness of times, in the which I will gather together in one all things, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; D&C 27:13
I've wondered about all the crazy emphasis going on getting everything sealed together and why the keys to the kingdom were specifically given for and described as a binding power - for everything in heaven and earth. I mean, we're out there furiously doing genealogy and sealings and turning hearts to father & sons and building more and more temples. Wouldn't it just be crazy if it turns out that there is in reality just one thing and we are temporarily literally the offspring from the ONE, so that we can have this experience: for what reason? Because we wanted to better understand ourself, and that's hard to do without creating and interacting with points of reference outside of ourself (ie. us the offspring, as independent individuals). Maybe that's why:
Quote:All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence. D&C 93:30
There would be no existence because if there was only one thing contemplating itself, then like Lehi talked about in 2 Nephi 2:11, it would all just disappear into a lifeless compound in one, because if there was only one thing then it would be everything, and if it was everything then it becomes no-thing because there would be nothing else to observe it. So when I read about the great commandment being:
Quote:
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
matthew 22:36-40
How can I possibly love God and my neighbor and you, some poor guy reading this crazy post, all as myself? I suspect we can because we are all in reality ONE. So I can stop worrying that you are getting more stuff than me, or becoming more successful, or seemingly more popular than me or whatever. Why? Simply because in reality you are not only my brother, but in fact we are ONE; that you are in me and I am in you and we are in the Father through the Son. (Kind of sounds like an old Beatles song I recall) So my desire grows, to help uplift you however I can, the more that I grow in my understanding of that infinite connection we have as ONE. (well! I certainly didn't mean to write all that....)
[Updated on: Tue, 29 May 2012 14:57] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The Divine Brotherhood of the Universe [message #435 is a reply to message #426] |
Wed, 30 May 2012 14:12 |
bishop
Messages: 144
Registered: July 2010
Location: USA
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Senior Member |
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I know what you guys mean. As I ponder this line of thinking, I have a fear of losing my identity. On the other hand, to fully become, I must be one with God. To have the creative power which I desire, I must cultivate and inspire this oneness in myself and all that is around me. In essence, I must change my identity to the oneness. My characteristics enhance the oneness and make it even brighter than before. My successes are our successes and your successes are our successes. Likewise, our failures. True Godhood can only be True Oneness. When this thinking sinks in, we no longer condemn our drug-addicted, adulterous [or what have you]neighbors; we just realize that they are on a path of learning that eventually will teach them truth.
Bishop
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| Re: The Divine Brotherhood of the Universe [message #451 is a reply to message #435] |
Sat, 02 June 2012 20:14 |
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Dragon
Messages: 499
Registered: June 2010
Location: Earth
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Senior Member |
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Bishop, SirExcedrin,
The next step on this line of thinking is that there is no sin, because everyONE is all the same, and we must all walk all paths, therefore, whatever we do, is for the experience of the ONE.
There is a paradox containing a truth in being unified and unique at the same time. A good example is found in the leaves of trees. Each one fits the pattern of the whole, and each one is easily identified as belonging to a specific species. But no two leaves are identical, even if they are next to each other on the same branch. No matter how good that one leaf is, however close it approaches the perfect leaf, it will always be unique. The same is true of snowflakes and many other things in nature.
Several years ago, I faced this dilemma. If I had to give up my individuality, I did not want to become ONE with anything. God does not want us to sacrifice what makes us unique, so long as that is not sin. The culture of the LDS church encourages the idea of destroying independent thinking and individuality. I am far too unique to sacrifice the things which make me who I am.
There is another issue which was raised here: judgement of my neighbor. There are actions which I know to be sin, though others do not. Everyone makes choices in life, and they will be rewarded or punished according to those choices. But I cannot make a judgement about someone else without knowing everything which led up to their decisions.
What I CAN decide, is who I want in my life. Those who lead me closer to God, or those who make me feel good in the moment by sacrificing the future. Personally, when someone is taking illegal drugs, there is a line of involvement I will not cross. The same goes for other sins. I must choose for myself what kind of people to have around me. But I cannot decide whether someone has lost all hope in the eyes of God, and therefore not worth my time. If someone shows interest in the gospel, I must give them the opportunity to learn what they will.
We are commanded not to judge unrighteously, but we are not commanded not to judge. The gift of discernment does nothing without some form of judgement attached to it.
- Dragon
- Dragon
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| Re: The Divine Brotherhood of the Universe [message #457 is a reply to message #451] |
Wed, 06 June 2012 08:17 |
SirExcedrin
Messages: 7
Registered: May 2012
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Junior Member |
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Quote:The next step on this line of thinking is that there is no sin, because everyONE is all the same
Quote:I am He as you are He as you are me and we are altogether.
The next step in thinking in Oneness is to change one's focus from seeking to identify and correct sin and find differences in others, to a focus on loving and helping and lifting others regardless. It's always been a satanic focus to look for sin, or in other words: deviations from that which one believes to be correct; that we should find sin to righteously judge and correct. Oneness focuses on loving others as yourself because they are you, and that it all must be brought back together into one. The focus is on seeing and feeling our connectedness. For example, that man is hungry just like I get hungry, so how can I help feed him as I would want to feed myself, rather than that man is sinning, so how can I correct him and judge whether he is even worthy of my help. It's like Christ taught, that if we are only going to love those that love us then we are no better than a tax collector.
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| Re: The Divine Brotherhood of the Universe [message #463 is a reply to message #457] |
Thu, 07 June 2012 19:24 |
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Dragon
Messages: 499
Registered: June 2010
Location: Earth
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Senior Member |
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Sir Excedrin,
Perhaps the problem here is your use of certain words which carry more baggage than your post can give them. It is true we should all be seeking to increase love in our lives. However, your statements seem to promote willful ignorance of those around us. You use phrases like "he is you" and I see in your words a belief we are all really part of one great whole, and merely different aspects of some multidimensional creature. I must reject this idea, as it does not comply with established doctrine, or my own personal experience, or my sense of reasoning.
Descarte said it best when he said, Quote:"I think, therefore I exist. And what am I? I am a thinking being." In these words I found truth showing I am a separate being from any other soul in the entire universe. My thoughts are my own, and I have choice on how those thoughts interact with the world I perceive. Only when I understand myself can I truly understand others.
I do not need to look for sin to find it in others. I don't believe everyone sins every day. However, there are certain actions which exclude people from my life for my own protection. I had many occasions to see people taking these actions, but I would not call them sins, because they had not received the law prohibiting such actions. Yet I cannot embrace them into my life. I may give advice from a distance, but there must be limits.
Buddhists seek to become one with the universe, and I have felt the beginnings of this journey as I experienced transcendence. In the end, the only way I can be One with anyone or anything is by having the same goals, intentions, and work. Just as every leaf of a tree is One with each other and the tree as a whole, yet unique from any other, and not forming one great leaf.
- Dragon
- Dragon
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| Re: The Divine Brotherhood of the Universe [message #475 is a reply to message #463] |
Mon, 11 June 2012 01:43 |
SirExcedrin
Messages: 7
Registered: May 2012
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Junior Member |
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Quote:You use phrases like "he is you" and I see in your words a belief we are all really part of one great whole, and merely different aspects of some multidimensional creature.
That's an interesting idea, but since I never said any such thing I can only assume that you are creating a strawman that you can respond to.
Quote:It is true we should all be seeking to increase love in our lives. No, I'm saying that in reality love is all there is so one cannot increase in it, but rather one can only realize it. I define love as the flow of light and information.
Quote:However, your statements seem to promote willful ignorance of those around us. I don't get what you are saying there. If you are saying that I am purposely pretending that sin does not exist all around us, then that is sort of true in this sense: I believe that sin is a concept that only exists from the perspective of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and that it has no relevance to the tree of life which only produces pure love.
Quote:
John 17:21-23 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us...that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one;
D&C 50:43 And the Father and I are one. I am in the Father and the Father in me; and inasmuch as ye have received me, ye are in me and I in you.
United in this Divine Essence, or Spirit is the mind of all Gods; and all the Gods being incarnations of this Spirit, become God in unity; and by the incarnation of this Spirit in Divine Personages, they become the Divine Brotherhood of the Universe, the ONE GOD, though made of many. " from the BHR post starting this thread.
We rush to assure one another that the Lord means one in purpose, intentions, etc like we are desperately attempting to reaffirm our independence and separation. we think of space as a vast container without walls but that's wrong. We know from Einstein's relativity theory for instance that the distance between objects changes depending on gravity and velocity so there's no absolute distance between anything and anything else. In fact quantum theory casts doubt on whether things are separated in time and space at all. There are these things called entangled particles that act in unison even though they may be separated by an inch or the width of the galaxy it doesn't matter because they act instantaneously to change ie. change the properties of one particle and all the entangled particles change their properties instantaneously as if there is no separation in space and time between them. We are only beginning to understand our true connectedness.
Quote:Just as every leaf of a tree is One with each other and the tree as a whole, yet unique from any other, and not forming one great leaf. Yes, I agree. Each leaf has individual presentation yet they are all ONE tree.
Question for you: what is the only thing in the universe that was not created and why do you think that is?
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| Re: The Divine Brotherhood of the Universe [message #477 is a reply to message #475] |
Mon, 11 June 2012 11:13 |
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Dragon
Messages: 499
Registered: June 2010
Location: Earth
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Senior Member |
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Quote:I define love as the flow of light and information.
I call that the internet, and it certainly has much more than love. Information and light do not always improve those who receive them. Can you show where you derived this definition for love? We cannot have a discussion if we use the same words to mean different things. Perhaps one of these definitions will do?
Quote:verb (used with object)
15. to have love or affection for: All her pupils love her.
16. to have a profoundly tender, passionate affection for (another person).
17. to have a strong liking for; take great pleasure in
Quote:I believe that sin is a concept that only exists from the perspective of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and that it has no relevance to the tree of life which only produces pure love.
Sin, by definition, is knowingly acting against the will of God. (James 4:17) God is love, (1Jn 4:8) and the tree of life represents the pure love of God. (1Ne 11:21-22) Yet God has a will, and a purpose. Sin is to act against that purpose with knowledge that you are doing so. How then, can there be no relevance to the tree of life? Sin is what draws people away from it, and thus from God.
It is true that gravity does bend the fabric of space, and thus distort distances. It is true velocities approaching the speed of light noticeably change perception of those inside the inertial reference frame with speeds higher than about 0.8c. These do not lead me to conclude we cannot measure distances in space, or on earth.
Quantum entangled particles are entangled because they are created at the same time in a manner which requires certain properties be balanced. I have read of these experiments, and they do raise some interesting questions. Further diving into the world of experimental quantum mechanics, it has been observed the results of tests with quantum particles are highly dependent on the desires of the observer. That is, with all outcomes equally likely in theory, one outcome is favored when the observer desires it to be so.
Those are all wonderfully interesting topics. None of them address the real issue here. Agency. If we are Quote:just one thing and we are temporarily literally the offspring from the ONE, so that we can have this experience: for what reason? Because we wanted to better understand ourself, and that's hard to do without creating and interacting with points of reference outside of ourself then Agency is of no effect. We would be doing what we are doing for the experience of the greater whole, and no one could act against the will of God (the whole) because they ARE God, or at least one aspect of Him. This line of thinking leads to dark places which do not contain light, or truth. Only information.
- Dragon
- Dragon
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| Re: The Divine Brotherhood of the Universe [message #488 is a reply to message #477] |
Thu, 14 June 2012 12:33 |
Ashleyd
Messages: 100
Registered: May 2012
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Senior Member |
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I sort of had a revelation about sin a while ago as I was pondering some things. I was thinking about the way my parents raised me and mistakes they made out of weakness and a lack of knowledge. I was thinking about how I don't hold a grudge for the mistakes they made because I know the things they did wrong even the things that were abusive to me were not really about me. It was their own hang ups and demons. But I was thinking about the atonement and the power in the atonement and thinking about how even though I forgive my parents for those things the affects of what they did are still with me and I now have certain weaknesses in me that they passed down that I have to overcome and keep from passing those things down to my children. I was pondering over the challenge of it all and how the atonement is the only thing that can make amends for the affects of sin on a person and truly heal them. As I was pondering over all of these things suddenly a train of these thoughts came rushing into my mind.
Basically that all of the mistakes we make and bad choices eventually won't matter in any negative way but they will all be for our good. And so even though we are encouraged to not sin and forsake our sins and do what is right that sin is still essential to progression to give us experience and to teach us. And part of this came After listening to Alma talk about sins and the law and how if there was no law there would be no sin and there would be no need for justice and mercy. So I really began to think about that thought ok, well then why did HF make the law the way he did? The law was made to teach us what is right and wrong and to keep us from just indulging in things with no sense of conscience or direction. But then a Savior was provided as a way to right all the wrongs. It's really quite an amazing system. We have these laws to protect us from being savage and unknowingly doing things that are wrong. But then a Savior was provided which would through grace allow us to experience the negative things without a lasting consequence. It's really hard to put into words exactly how the revelation opened up my understanding about law and sin and free agency and the purpose of it all but it left me with a profound sense of gratitude for the savior and for this earth life experience. Even the bad.
[Updated on: Thu, 14 June 2012 12:36] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: The Divine Brotherhood of the Universe [message #714 is a reply to message #379] |
Wed, 25 July 2012 18:30 |
zephyr
Messages: 129
Registered: May 2012
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Senior Member |
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My thoughts on the original post are that the "one God" refers more to a group of attributes in their perfection. When these attributes exist in a being, that being becomes the "one God" that has always existed.
The Holy Spirit (D&C 88:13) radiates from the presence of God and fills the immensity of space. The Holy Spirit possesses, in some way I don't understand, all of these attributes, or at least it conveys them. Such that the one God is spread throughout time and space.
It is the goal of the Gods to help us to be filled with this Holy Spirit and to become one with them by acquiring, in their perfection, all of these attributes.
Thus, this one God goes back in time forever, and forward forever, as one generation of Gods after another fills their children with the Spirit and makes them One.
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