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Home » The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints » LDS Deep Doctrine » What Books Should be Studied as Scripture? (Recent Discoveries of Ancient Scripture...)
Re: What Books Should be Studied as Scripture? [message #755 is a reply to message #748] Sun, 29 July 2012 11:28 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Amonhi is currently offline  Amonhi
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Registered: June 2010
Location: Las Vegas, NV.
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"Dragon"
This sounds like a wonderful reply. The only problem it creates is it destroys the image of what the Rod of Iron is supposed to be about. The Rod of Iron, as presented by the Church, is a relatively safe path through the mists of darkness and filthy river and leads safely to the Tree of Life. It is so envisioned because anyone can follow it, and it is thought everyone can take the same path. The idea is nice, and fits well into the Mormon Culture of 'The Thinking is Done for Us Already.'

LOL, yeah, it sounds Utopian doesn't it. The thing to remember is that nobody is supposed to have joined the church without having received a number of personal revelations:
- God Exists
- Jesus Christ is the savior
- The Book of Mormon is True
- The Church is the path they should take

Every member of the church has experienced this process to some degree prior to being baptized. They relied entirely on their own revelation and spirituality to get them into the church. Then all of the sudden that isn't good enough to get them to God. We start to tell discredit the very process and spirituality that got them into the church.

Now, the question is, "Does the Iron Rod as taught by the church , "Scriptures and prophets" work to lead people down the straight and narrow path that leads to the fruit tree/love of God and eternal life.

I know hundreds of gospel scholars, religion teachers, Bishops & stake Presidents who rely on the word of God to others. They rely on the word of God to ancient prophets as recorded in the scriptures and they rely on the words of God from modern prophets and apostles. But none of these come to the tree and fruit which is to experience God for themselves except they are willing to get their own revelation and follow the word of God to them directly. (Even if that means having a growing testimony from God of the scriptures and prophets teachings.)

Now ask anyone who has received their C&E if they did not receive it by personal revelation which comes to be trusted over time by practice.

"Dragon"
If the Rod of Iron is the Word of God as ratified by the Spirit, then the rod is not as fixed in place as people imagine a rod of iron to be.

This is also the Rock on which if we build, we are promised we cannot fall. Personal revelation and spiritual experience is the ONLY Firm foundation. When everything around us falls, our faith on it falls with it. But we can never deny our personal revelation/experience with the spiritual. If we follow our personal revelation to the source of all good things, it will lead us the fruit which is most precious above all other fruits. (We will also know that as we walk the path closer to the source, following the rod, we will have reassurances along the way which are mini fruits that confirm our direction.

"Dragon"
Well, I suppose we'll have to take a step back and watch the process of a new convert following the Iron Rod. First they gain a testimony of Jesus Christ, Joseph Smith, and the Book of Mormon. Right there we have a book of scripture which is accepted first as a whole, and later as individual chapters and verses. Can the Book of Mormon on its own get us to the Tree of Life? By Amonhi's answer I would say no. It will get us closer to God than any other book, but will not get us the whole way.

Yes, did you see the underlining processes of gaining personal revelation that attends every step. Even reading the scriptures as you said, "requires personal revelation" to understand them correctly and get scripture out of the scriptures. At every step of great growth, we find personal revelation.

The word of God that IS the iron rod is the word of God to YOU personally, not the word of God to anyone else.

Also, did you notice that Lehi was lost in the mist of darkness not having held on to the rod because he followed "a man

Quote:
5 And it came to pass that I saw a man, and he was dressed in a white robe; and he came and stood before me.
6 And it came to pass that he spake unto me, and bade me follow him.
7 And it came to pass that as I followed him I beheld myself that I was in a dark and dreary waste. - 1Ne. 8:5-7

No matter what man we follow, we enter into a dark a dreary waste.
Quote:
President Joseph Smith read the 14th chapter of Ezekiel--said the Lord had declared by the Prophet, that the people should each one stand for himself, and depend on no man or men in that state of corruption of the Jewish church--that righteous persons could only deliver their own souls--applied it to the present state of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints--said if the people departed from the Lord, they must fall--that they were depending on the Prophet, hence were darkened in their minds,..." -TotPJS, Section Five 1842-43, p.237

Joseph says they were depending on the prophet and had departed from the Lord and so were darkened in their minds. This is the darkness of Lehi's dream.
Joseph used Ezekiel 14 as the foundation for his talk. It just so hapens that this chapter is all about this very topic.

Quote:
7 For every one of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel, which separateth himself from me, and setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to a prophet to enquire of him concerning me; I the Lord will answer him by myself:
8 And I will set my face against that man, and will make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of my people; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
9 And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.
10 And they shall bear the punishment of their iniquity: the punishment of the prophet shall be even as the punishment of him that seeketh unto him;
11 That the house of Israel may go no more astray from me, neither be polluted any more with all their transgressions; but that they may be my people, and I may be their God, saith the Lord God.

When a prophet becomes so corrupt that he begins to lead the people toward himself, (saying follow me, like the man in Lehi's Dream), rather than toward God, (prayer and personal Revelation), then God will ensure that the prophet becomes deceived so that the people who follow the prophet become deceived and they all fall. In this way the people will learn to stop relying on the prophet and go to God directly, "That the house of Israel may go no more astray from me."

After following the man and finding that following the man caused him to be in darkness, Lehi prayed and that alone lifted the darkness so that he could see clearly for himself.
Quote:
9 And it came to pass after I had prayed unto the Lord I beheld a large and spacious field.
10 And it came to pass that I beheld a tree, whose fruit was desirable to make one happy.

The field he saw was the same field he was wandering in while in darkness. He hadn't moved from the darkness, the darkness moved from him. This is why the Lord gave the D&C with the following preface:
Quote:
19 The aweak things of the world shall come forth and break down the mighty and strong ones, that man should not counsel his fellow man, neither trust in the arm of flesh--
20 But that every man might speak in the name of God the Lord, even the Savior of the world;


This is the True Rod of Iron, firm and fixed as the rock on which we should build. Something we can really hold on to without it falling apart in our hands like faith on someone else's revelation.
 
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