| Re: Sinning as Spirits in the Premortal World [message #505 is a reply to message #503] |
Mon, 18 June 2012 11:14   |
Seeker
Messages: 244
Registered: June 2010
Location: Las Vegas
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Senior Member |
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Whoa! New doctrine here... I knew we sinned in the premortal world and were in the presence of God, but only grasped the preparatory redemption in part. I thought it was that we were redeemed before coming to earth. In preparation for coming to earth.
One thing you said was that, "when we sin, we are told to "repent because the spirit will not always strive with us". I remembered reading those words in the book of Mormon. I looked it up and found this:
"Ether 2:15"And the brother of Jared repented of the evil which he had done, and did call upon the name of the Lord for his brethren who were with him. And the Lord said unto him: I will forgive thee and thy brethren of their sins; but thou shalt not sin any more, for ye shall remember that my Spirit will not always strive with man; wherefore, if ye will sin until ye are fully ripe ye shall be cut off from the presence of the Lord. And these are my thoughts upon the land which I shall give you for your inheritance; for it shall be a land choice above all other lands.
Did you see that? If you sin until your are fully ripe, THEN you will be cut off from the PRESENCE of the Lord. He also is told that they need to stop sinning because the spirit will not always strive with man. It seems to mean that the spirit is striving with them while they are yet sinning and they are being warned that if they do not repent that a time will come when the spirit will not strive with them any more. Like it is saying that the spirit will hang around even though we are not worthy, but only to a point.
Laman and Lemuel were beyond that point, but good people who are honestly working toward a greater life will continue to have the spirit and even the presence of the Lord while they are progressing toward that greater end. Only when we are "fully ripe" are we cast out from the presence of the Lord.
So, what about those scriptures that say "NO Unclean Thing can dwell in God's presence?" Are we made clean through the preparatory redemption by grace until the day of our full redemption by works?
Is this the "middle way" for the "saved by grace vs. saved by works" discussion? Is this a new way of looking at what Joseph Smith taught, "We are saved by Grace after all we can do"?
You got me thinking!
~ Seeker
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