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Home » The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints » LDS Deep Doctrine » Salvation and the Atonement (Discussion of the logic behind Salvation and the Atonement)
Re: Salvation and the Atonement [message #236 is a reply to message #234] Wed, 02 March 2011 12:02 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Dragon is currently offline  Dragon
Messages: 499
Registered: June 2010
Location: Earth
Senior Member
Given all the recent posts about this topic, I had an insight which comes from a rather unusual source. While watching the movie "Ghost Rider", a line was spoken which touched me in a way scripture had not done so on the subject. It is repeated multiple times, as it is the penitence stare of the Ghost Rider.
Quote:
"Your soul is stained with the blood of the innocent. Feel their pain."

The Ghost Rider then proceeds to force the guilty to feel what they did to the innocent as if it were happening to them. My heart and mind finally aligned on the subject, and I now know that the ultimate punishment for our sins is to experience the pain we have caused others.

Imagine then, how people will feel when all our spiritual gifts are restored, including empathy. And, standing before God, acknowledging that His judgments are just, someone must endure that suffering. If we refuse to allow the atonement to provide mercy, then we are cursed to feel their pain, after which we enter into a kingdom of glory. But those who shed the blood of the innocent and utterly refuse the atonement, will feel that pain for eternity, as no finite amount of suffering will suffice. If I steal from someone, they could eventually get over the financial and emotional impact I cause. Thus, in the eternities I will be punished in that way before receiving my glory (probably Telestial). But when someone is murdered, with the intent to thwart the designs of God, that person cannot ever recover from their death. Thus, I can never stop feeling their pain if the atonement has no effect. When this happens, a person is damned to outer darkness where they cannot be consoled by the presence of the Holy Ghost, because they experience eternal torment from what they have done.

Now, can the atonement cover the sin of murder? Yes. There is a case in point which proves some measure of forgiveness is possible, even if full forgiveness was not given. King David committed murder so he could marry a woman he lusted after. God had given him many wives, and political power, wealth, respect, and many other blessings. But he fell to the temptation of lust and compounded it by killing the one man who stood in his way. The scriptures do not say whether King David had given in to his lusts before, but we all know the sin of adultery does not happen without some preparation towards that end. In the Psalms of David, we learn that God promised not to condemn him to outer darkness. Even while living under the law of Moses, he was not stoned for his crime, but allowed to live out his life. He made as much progress in repenting as he could, but was left with the inescapable conclusion that he could not be exalted, but would not be cast into outer darkness. What was his ultimate fate? Only he and God knows that. But the atonement did have some effect.

I await your comments before proceeding with more on this subject.

- Dragon

- Dragon

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