Home » The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints » LDS Deep Doctrine » All About Sons Of Perdition (Discussion and questions)
All About Sons Of Perdition [message #898] |
Sun, 12 August 2012 23:37 |
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JulesGP
Messages: 357 Registered: May 2012 Location: Davis County, UT
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Senior Member |
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My first question is regarding what seems to be contradicting "doctrine" between different church sources and scriptures. The following quotes state that Sons of Perdition receive NO inheritance, and NO glory, and NO kingdom. Their punishment and torment is that they receive NO reward.
Quote:D&C 88
24 And he who cannot abide the law of a atelestial bkingdom cannot abide a telestial cglory; therefore he is not meet for a kingdom of glory. Therefore he must abide a kingdom which is not a kingdom of glory.
Quote:Perdition
Some people will not be worthy to dwell in any kingdom of glory. They will be called "the sons of perdition" and will have to "abide a kingdom which is not a kingdom of glory" (D&C 76:32; 88:24). This will be the state of "those who know [God's] power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy [God's] power" (D&C 76:31; see also D&C 76:30, 32-49).
Quote:Degrees of glory
Degrees of glory. It is apparent that if God rewards everyone according to the deeds done in the body, the term heaven as intended for man's eternal home must include more kingdoms than one. In speaking of man in his resurrected state, Paul tells of glories like the sun, the moon, and the stars (1 Cor. 15:3941). He also speaks of the "third heaven" (2 Cor. 12:2). Jesus spoke of "many mansions" or kingdoms (John 14:2). Latter-day revelation confirms the teaching of the Bible on these matters and verifies that there are three general categories or glories to which the members of the human family will be assigned in the judgment following their resurrection from the grave. These are known as the celestial, terrestrial, and telestial kingdoms, of which the sun, moon, and stars are spoken of as being typical (D&C 76; 88:2032; 131:14). In addition to the degrees of glory, there is a place of no glory, called perdition, reserved for those who commit the unpardonable sin.
But my Gospel Doctrine teacher taught that Cain will rule in outer darkness and rule over Lucifer as he received a body. This from The Encyclopedia of Mormonism put out by the church via BYU, also says this:
Quote:Those who become sons of perdition while in mortality will be resurrected with unglorified physical bodies and "rise to the damnation of their own filthiness" (TPJS, p. 361). Cain, thus resurrected, will then rule over the unembodied Lucifer (Moses 5:23; MD, p. 109).
This description implies that Cain will have a position of glory as he will "rule" over Lucifer. It uses the following scripture as a reference:
Quote:Moses 5:23 If thou doest well, thou shalt be aaccepted. And if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door, and Satan bdesireth to have thee; and except thou shalt hearken unto my commandments, I will cdeliver thee up, and it shall be unto thee according to his desire. And thou shalt drule over him;
24 For from this time forth thou shalt be the father of his alies; thou shalt be called bPerdition; for thou wast also cbefore the world.
My understanding, is that SOP will have NO glory. I understand this scripture to be the CURRENT state of Cain/Lucifer, as he is still wandering this Earth, and still has a body, so technically he does - at this time, have more power than Lucifer. But once he is sent to outer darkness, I understood that he will have NO glory.
So this begs the question: "Will the second death include not only a separation from God and any reward of glory, but a physical separation of the body from the spirit?"
I have tried to find a clear, definitive answer to this, but haven't been able to. The scriptures I've found that are MOST clear, are these:
Quote:"Now this is the state of the souls of the wicked, yea, in darkness, and a state of awful, fearful looking for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God upon them; thus they remain in this state, as well as the righteous in paradise, until the time of their resurrection" (Alma 40:1214).
So I see here that even those who become SOP will be resurrected.
Quote:17 Wherefore, I, the Lord, have said that the fearful, and the unbelieving, and all liars, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie, and the whoremonger, and the sorcerer, shall have their part in that lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
18 Verily I say, that they shall not have part in the first resurrection.
And that they will come forth in the SECOND resurrection.
And then there are these regarding the second death itself:
Quote:Alma 12:16 - And now behold, I say unto you then cometh a death, even a second death, which is a spiritual death; then is a time that whosoever dieth in his sins, as to a temporal death, shall also die a spiritual death; yea, he shall die as to things pertaining unto righteousness.
Quote:Alma 12:32 - Therefore God gave unto them commandments, after having made known unto them the plan of redemption, that they should not do evil, the penalty thereof being a second death, which was an everlasting death as to things pertaining unto righteousness; for on such the plan of redemption could have no power, for the works of justice could not be destroyed, according to the supreme goodness of God.
Quote:Hel 14:18 - Yea, and it bringeth to pass the condition of repentance, that whosoever repenteth the same is not hewn down and cast into the fire; but whosoever repenteth not is hewn down and cast into the fire; and there cometh upon them again a spiritual death, yea, a second death, for they are cut off again as to things pertaining to righteousness.
I've also read through several talks in Journal of Discources, including these which all discuss SOP and the second death:
http://jod.mrm.org/23/169
http://jod.mrm.org/7/351
http://jod.mrm.org/8/27
But I still can't see anything that says specifically whether or not SOP will lose their physical bodies as part of the second death process. So my two questions are:
1. Do SOP lose their physical bodies as part of the second death?
2. Will Cain (and others who received bodies) actually RULE over Lucifer if the answer to question #1 is NO?
~Jules
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All About Sons Of Perdition
By: JulesGP on Sun, 12 August 2012 23:37
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Re: All About Sons Of Perdition
By: zephyr on Mon, 13 August 2012 19:45
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Re: All About Sons Of Perdition
By: Dragon on Wed, 15 August 2012 07:19
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Re: All About Sons Of Perdition
By: Denryu on Wed, 15 August 2012 07:35
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Re: All About Sons Of Perdition
By: JulesGP on Thu, 16 August 2012 20:21
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Re: All About Sons Of Perdition
By: zephyr on Thu, 16 August 2012 20:33
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Re: All About Sons Of Perdition
By: JulesGP on Thu, 16 August 2012 20:45
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Re: All About Sons Of Perdition
By: zephyr on Thu, 16 August 2012 21:59
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Re: All About Sons Of Perdition
By: Dragon on Sat, 18 August 2012 22:27
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Re: All About Sons Of Perdition
By: JulesGP on Wed, 22 August 2012 00:24
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Re: All About Sons Of Perdition
By: Denryu on Wed, 22 August 2012 03:05
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Re: All About Sons Of Perdition
By: zephyr on Wed, 22 August 2012 07:15
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Re: All About Sons Of Perdition
By: Denryu on Wed, 22 August 2012 07:48
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Re: All About Sons Of Perdition
By: Dragon on Wed, 22 August 2012 09:40
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Re: All About Sons Of Perdition
By: Denryu on Wed, 22 August 2012 10:39
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Re: All About Sons Of Perdition
By: JulesGP on Wed, 22 August 2012 16:55
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Re: All About Sons Of Perdition
By: zephyr on Wed, 22 August 2012 18:08
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Re: All About Sons Of Perdition
By: JulesGP on Wed, 22 August 2012 21:52
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Re: All About Sons Of Perdition
By: JulesGP on Wed, 22 August 2012 16:52
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Re: All About Sons Of Perdition
By: Amonhi on Thu, 23 August 2012 08:34
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Re: All About Sons Of Perdition
By: JulesGP on Fri, 24 August 2012 12:03
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Re: All About Sons Of Perdition
By: JulesGP on Thu, 30 August 2012 21:23
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Re: All About Sons Of Perdition
By: Seeker on Sat, 08 September 2012 22:51
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Re: All About Sons Of Perdition
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Re: All About Sons Of Perdition
By: JulesGP on Thu, 30 August 2012 21:28
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Re: All About Sons Of Perdition
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