| The Rock or Sure Foundation [message #10] |
Fri, 11 June 2010 15:53  |
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Elliaison_Admin
Messages: 43
Registered: June 2010
Location: N/A
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Please use this topic to discuss thoughts, questions and comments relating the chapter, "The Rock or Sure Foundation".
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| Re: The Rock or Sure Foundation [message #384 is a reply to message #376] |
Fri, 25 May 2012 23:24  |
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Dragon
Messages: 499
Registered: June 2010
Location: Earth
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Gideon,
As I study the Kingdoms of Glory, I find God the Eternal Father is present in the Celestial Kingdom, and those who dwell therein are pure enough to dwell in His presence and be comforted by it. Jesus Christ is present in the Celestial Kingdom and the Terrestrial Kingdom, and those who dwell therein are pure enough to dwell in His presence and be comforted by it. The Holy Ghost is present in the Celestial Kingdom, the Terrestrial Kingdom, and the Telestial Kingdom and those who dwell therein are pure enough to dwell in His presence and be comforted by it. So, those who blaspheme against God the Eternal Father cannot be happy in the Celestial Kingdom until they repent and are forgiven. Those who blaspheme against Jesus Christ cannot be happy in the Terrestrial Kingdom until they repent and are forgiven. Those who blaspheme against the Holy Ghost must be cast off into outer darkness unless they repent and are forgiven. But at this point we reach a problem. The Holy Ghost is essential to repentance. It is the Holy Ghost which guides us to repent, and gives us direction from God in how to proceed.
Another way to answer your question would be to show that the Holy Ghost can only speak the words of Christ, while those who profess to follow Christ have sometime misinterpreted His words, or altered them for their own purposes. While the words of Christ spoken by the Holy Ghost, are received by us along with the understanding of what they mean. So how can you follow Christ unless you first follow the Holy Ghost? It is like trying to repent without faith in the atonement.
- Dragon
- Dragon
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| Re: The Rock or Sure Foundation [message #664 is a reply to message #390] |
Wed, 18 July 2012 13:57 |
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JulesGP
Messages: 357
Registered: May 2012
Location: Davis County, UT
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Senior Member |
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I really liked this chapter and the fact that it DID point out that even the words of the Savior MUST be ratified by the Holy Ghost. I feel this way for a couple of reasons.
First, unless we are being taught face-to-face by the Savior, we are reading or hearing his words second hand. We NEED the Spirit to discern the truthfulness of translations, and second hand accounts in order to weed out misunderstanding, mistranslations, misquotes, and to help us understand context and such. Also to tell us how the message should be applied in our own lives, etc. We can't just pick up any version of the Bible and read The Sermon On the Mount for example, and read the EXACT same thing. The words are of the Savior, but they will be written slightly differently in each version - and even so, it's someone else's account of what He said. We need the Spirit to give us the correct UNDERSTANDING of what is being said - even if it was said by the Savior. Also, to testify to us that HE actually taught those things, and someone didn't just claim he did.
Second, even if the Savior is teaching us face-to-face, we have to have the Spirit ratify that teaching and again, help us UNDERSTAND correctly. That can't happen simply with words or body language or human forms of communication. The Spirit HAS to be part of that "conversation". I "BELIEVE" that if my parents tell me something, then it is the truth. But I can't absolutely KNOW unequivocally without question for a FACT that what they are saying is true unless I either experience it myself, or the Spirit testifies of the truthfulness. This applies even if we are speaking with the Savior.
So since the Holy Ghost IS truth, it MUST be PRESENT - even when the Savior speaks. If we "BELIEVE" the words of the Savior, even though they came from the Savior, we are still just acting on faith unless the Holy Ghost ratifies it and makes it TRUTH, and gives us that sure knowledge.
I imagine that when Abraham was told to sacrifice Isaac, the Spirit probably testified to him that it was NOT the right thing to do. He fought within himself between following God's COMMAND, and following the Spirit that testified of what was RIGHT. Abraham followed God's command and got the wrong answer. If he had followed the Spirit, he would have gotten the correct answer. That's a pretty clear demonstration to me of how the Spirit trumps ALL, even the Savior, even God.
~Jules
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| Re: The Rock or Sure Foundation [message #2094 is a reply to message #1594] |
Sat, 26 January 2013 23:35 |
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JulesGP
Messages: 357
Registered: May 2012
Location: Davis County, UT
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Senior Member |
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And another quote by the Savior in 3 Nephi 15:23 that illustrates the point above:
Quote:And they understood me not that I said they shall hear my voice; and they understood me not that the Gentiles should not at any time hear my voice--that I should not manifest myself unto them save it were by the Holy Ghost.
~Jules
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