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Home » The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints » LDS Deep Doctrine » Sinning as Spirits in the Premortal World (Discuss how we progressed as spirits including Sinning before we were born)
Sinning as Spirits in the Premortal World [message #481] Tue, 12 June 2012 15:38 Go to previous message
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"Dragon
These show me we could and did affect the physical world, and we fought with one another, meaning we could make choices, and some chose to act against the will of God.

This reminded me of something I learned as a missionary while studying Alma 13.
Quote:
"And those priests were ordained after the order of his Son, in a manner that thereby the people might know in what manner to look forward to his Son for redemption.
And this is the manner after which they were ordained--being called and prepared from the foundation of the world according to the foreknowledge of God, on account of their exceeding faith and good works; in the first place being left to choose good or evil; therefore they having chosen good, and exercising exceedingly great faith, are called with a holy calling, yea, with that holy calling which was prepared with, and according to, a preparatory redemption for such." Alma 13:2-3


They were called and prepared from the time the world was first founded, before they were born physically. They were called on account of their exceeding faith and good works which they showed after being left to choose good from evil, they having choosen the good and excersized great faith were called with a holy calling from the foundation of the world. Just Like Christ had been called from the foundation of the world to be our Savior.

Later, after my mission I found the following, section in the Institute Manual, "The Life and Teachings of Jesus and His Apostles" pages 336-338
Quote:
David
If some of the circumstances in which I find myself are based upon my conduct before, where did I begin? When did I start?

John
Well, first of all, there is an eternity of spirit matter.

"Our spirit matter was eternal and co-existent with God, but it was organized into spirit bodies by our Heavenly Father." (Kimball, Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 5.)

"All men were first born in pre-existence as the literal spirit offspring of God our Heavenly Father. This birth constituted the beginning of the human ego as a conscious identity. By the ordained procreative process our exalted and immortal Father begat his spirit progeny in pre-existence." (McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 84.)

"All men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother, and are literally the sons and daughters of Deity." (The First Presidency [Joseph Smith, John R. Winder, and Anthon H. Lund], "The Origin of Man," Improvement Era, Nov. 1909, p. 78.)

David
If I was born in the premortal world, what experiences did I go through there that provided God with a basis to favor or restrict me in this world?

John
We lived there in the home of our Father in heaven.

"He is a resurrected and holy and perfected man, and we are his offspring. We are his spirit children. He lives in the family unit. We are members of his family. We lived in this premortal life with him for an infinite period of time. We were on probation; we were being schooled and tested and examined; we were given the laws and the circumstances so that we could progress and advance. . . .

"This system was given to us, and for an infinite period of time, we advanced and progressed and did things that enabled us to go along the course leading to exaltation and dominion and godhood. . . .

"In this prior life, this premortal existence, this pre-existence, we developed various capacities and talents. Some developed them in one field and some in another. The most important of all fields was the field of spirituality, the ability, the talent, the capacity to recognize truth." (Bruce R. McConkie, as cited in When Thou Art Converted, Strengthen Thy Brethren, A Study Guide for the Melchizedek Priesthood Quorums of the Church, 197475,pp. 89.)

"Our spirit bodies went through a long period of growth and development and training and, having passed the test successfully, were finally admitted to this earth and to mortality." (Kimball, Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 5.)

"Preexistence is not some remote and mysterious place. All of us are but a few years removed from the Eternal Presence, from him whose children we are and in whose house we dwelt. . . .

". . . We know we had friends and associates there. We know we were schooled and trained and taught in the most perfect educational system ever devised, and that by obedience to his eternal laws we developed infinite varieties and degrees of talents. . . .

". . . When we come into mortality, we bring the talents, capacities, and abilities acquired by obedience to law in our prior existence." (Bruce R. McConkie in CR, Apr. 1974, pp. 1013.)

David
I am to understand, then, that I was born as the spirit son of God in heaven, that I lived there with my Father and mother in heaven and with my spirit brothers and sisters, and that I had opportunities to learn, to be tested, and to develop talents and abilities?

John
That is right. Some accounts that we have of the premortal life teach that we "were on the same standing" (Alma 13:5), and that we were "innocent" in the beginning (D&C 93:38). We were given laws and agency, and commandments to have faith and repent from the wrongs that we could do there.

". . . Man could and did in many instances, sin before he was born. . . ." (Smith, The Way to Perfection, p. 44.)

"God gave his children their agency even in the spirit world, by which the individual spirits had the privilege, just as men have here, of choosing the good and rejecting the evil, or partaking of the evil to suffer the consequences of their sins. . . . some even there were more faithful than others in keeping the commandments of the Lord. . . .

"The spirits of men . . . had an equal start, and we know they were all innocent in the beginning; but the right of free agency which was given to them enabled some to outstrip others, and thus, through the eons of immortal existence, to become more intelligent, more faithful, for they were free to act for themselves, to think for themselves, to receive the truth or rebel against it." (Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:5859.)

Many responded to the spirit of God there. They were favored and foreordained to receive privileges.

". . . And it was on account of their exceeding faith and repentance, and their righteousness before God, they choosing to repent and work righteousness rather than to perish; therefore they were called after this holy order, and were sanctified, and their garments were washed white through the blood of the Lamb." (Alma 13:10, 11; compare McConkie,Mormon Doctrine, p. 477.)

"Now this is the doctrine of foreordination; this is the doctrine of election. This is the reason why the Lord has a chosen and favored and peculiar people on earth; and this is why he said: 'My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.'" (Bruce R. McConkie in CR, Apr. 1974, p. 103.)

David
But what of those in premortality who rejected the Spirit of God and did not exercise exceeding great faith and repentance and righteousness before God? (See Alma 13:4, 10.)

John
They were not able to enjoy the great privileges that others were foreordained to receive. (See Alma 13:4.) They "did not show the loyalty to their Redeemer that they should." (Smith, Way to Perfection, p. 43.)

David
But weren't they allowed to come into the world innocent, too?

John
Yes. They were innocent at the time of their mortal birth. (See D&C 93:38.) Elder Joseph Fielding Smith said this:

"Their sin was not one that merited the extreme punishment which was inflicted on the devil and his angels. They were not denied the privilege of receiving the second estate, but were permitted to come to the earth-life with some restrictions placed upon them. . . . Yet, like all other spirits who come into this world, they come innocent before God so far as mortal existence is concerned, and here, under certain restrictions, they may work out their second estate." (Way to Perfection, pp. 43, 44. Emphasis added.)

Hence, some in this world receive great privileges and opportunities to receive the gospel because they chose to do good in preexistence. Others are limited here because they were not as "noble and great" there. (See Abraham 3:22.)

David
And how does the concept of Israel enter into this?

John
The family of Jacob is somehow involved in preexistence.

"Israel is an eternal people. Members of that chosen
race first gained their inheritance with the faithful in the premortal life. Israel was a distinct people in pre-existence. Many of the valiant and noble spirits in that first estate were chosen, elected, and foreordained to be born into the family of Jacob, so as to be natural heirs of all of the blessings of the gospel. It was to their pre-existent status that Moses alluded when, in speaking to mortal Israel, he said: 'Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations: ask thy father, and he will shew thee; thy elders, and they will tell thee. When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel. For the Lord's portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.' (Deut. 32:79.) Those of mortal Israel who walk uprightly in this second estate shall have eternal inheritance with Israel in the world to come." (McConkie, DNTC, 2:284.)

David
So the fact that I am here now and receiving the blessings and opportunities that I now receive means that I have already passed the test, under different circumstances and conditions?

John
Yes. And if you succeed here in this second estate, you shall not only be entitled to advantages in the world to come (D&C 130:19), but you "shall have glory added upon [your head] for ever and ever." (Abraham 3:26.)


The kicker is that this all happened in the presence of God. We sinned as we progressed as spirits in Gods presence. Only those who became sons of perdition where cast out from God's presence.

This was able to happen because of the "preparatory redemption" spoke by Alma as quoted at the beginning of this post. It is also how we even now, in this life can enter and remain in God's presence through grace, being only just made who are made perfect through the atonement. This means we can progress while making mistakes and even sin after being redeemed back into God's presence because of the grace of the atonement which fills the gap still remaining after all we can do...


~ Seeker
 
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