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Home » The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints » LDS Deep Doctrine » What Books Should be Studied as Scripture? (Recent Discoveries of Ancient Scripture...)
What Books Should be Studied as Scripture? [message #304] Mon, 25 April 2011 16:47 Go to next message
Seeker is currently offline  Seeker
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Last weekend I watched a documentary on "The Gospel of Judas". This is a book which was considered scripture by some ancient Christians but which was denounced by the Catholic Church and destroyed, as best as possible. Remarkably a single copy of this book survived the Catholic destruction and was found almost 2000 years later when it would be protected, valued and translated.

This isn't the only book. Tons of Early Christian scriptures have been found like the Gospel of Thomas, The Gospel of Mary, the Book of Enoch and many others.

In fact, when ever I hear someone say that the Bible is the only word of God and it is complete I strain not to laugh. I can't comprehend that anyone who knows the history of the bible and how the various books were selected could believe that no other book can be scripture.

I particularly find it interesting that there are a number of books called the "lost books" which are referenced in the bible but are not part of the bible. Even Christ refers to books that are true scripture which are not part of the current Bible. So if the bible says they are scripture does that mean they are?

The problem is that they are or were lost. Destroyed by the Catholic Church in an effort to purify the doctrine and prevent doctrines that do not support the church and it's positions from being taught.

Then some books made it into the Bible that have no real scripture/inspirational value like "The Songs of Solomon".

Now, in our lifetime, many of the "lost Books" that are referenced in the bible as being scripture, have been found and translated.

These "Lost Books" were often found in collections with other books not mentioned in the bible. All these books were sealed up with care to preserve them for some distant future when they could safely be discovered and made available. This means that the people who considered the "Lost Books" to be scripture also considered these other books to be valuable scripture.

Should we consider the "lost books" and other books to be scripture equal to the bible?

Should they be added to the cannon of scripture?

Should we study them as if they were scripture?


~ Seeker
Re: What Books Should be Studied as Scripture? [message #308 is a reply to message #304] Mon, 25 April 2011 21:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon is currently offline  Dragon
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The current Canon of scripture for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints includes the following:
King James version of the Bible with JST and added footnotes.
The Book of Mormon
The Doctrine and Covenants
The Pearl of Great Price
The book of Hymns
All General Conference talks
The most recent issue of the Ensign.
Your individual Patriarchal Blessing

One unofficial exception is the Songs of Solomon which our leaders have declared as not scripture. For something to be officially added to or removed from the Canon requires a vote by the governing body of the church. That would be either the First Presidency or the Quorum of the Apostles. Historically these two groups of equal power have never been at odds about anything.

As for the other books known as the Apocrypha, we are told to read them if we have spiritually progressed enough to discern truth from error without the guidance of almost 200 years of others commenting on them. This forum is a good place to study each lost book and discuss the ideas presented therein.

- Dragon


- Dragon
Re: What Books Should be Studied as Scripture? [message #311 is a reply to message #308] Wed, 27 April 2011 13:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Quote:
For something to be officially added to or removed from the Canon requires a vote by the governing body of the church. That would be either the First Presidency or the Quorum of the Apostles. Historically these two groups of equal power have never been at odds about anything.


I couldn't see the church ever adding additional ancient scriptures to the current cannon. The membership remains under condemnation for not using what we have been given. Why would we as a church be given more.

But we as individuals may or may not be under condemnation with the rest of the church. That is between each person and God. And as such, if God gives to a person additional scripture it is not valid to the church or canonized by the church and the members of the church are not bound by it.

Such scriptures can come from personal revelation, patriarchal blessings and testimonies of books gained by the Holy Ghost. So, we should we do what we ask everyone else to do, read the so called ancient scriptures and then apply the promise of Moroni?

Quote:
Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your chearts.

And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things. - Moro. 10:3-5


~ Seeker
Re: What Books Should be Studied as Scripture? [message #317 is a reply to message #311] Fri, 29 April 2011 01:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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D&C 91
Quote:
1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you concerning the Apocrypha--There are many things contained therein that are true, and it is mostly translated correctly;

2 There are many things contained therein that are not true, which are interpolations by the hands of men.

3 Verily, I say unto you, that it is not needful that the Apocrypha should be translated.

4 Therefore, whoso readeth it, let him understand, for the Spirit manifesteth truth;

5 And whoso is enlightened by the Spirit shall obtain benefit therefrom;

6 And whoso receiveth not by the Spirit, cannot be benefited. Therefore it is not needful that it should be translated. Amen.


Basically what I read here is that these books are full of incorrect interpretations. And, if they were gone through with a fine toothed spiritual comb, the truths they contain would not help people unless they were already possessed of the spiritual skills necessary to discern the truths for themselves. If anyone wants to study them together, I propose a form of study schedule. Pick a book, and we will all read it at the same time.

- Dragon


- Dragon
Re: What Books Should be Studied as Scripture? [message #318 is a reply to message #317] Fri, 29 April 2011 15:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Oh, good find.

I like your proposal, but I am not ready to follow through on it.



~ Seeker
Re: What Books Should be Studied as Scripture? [message #360 is a reply to message #308] Sun, 20 May 2012 23:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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A few weeks ago in Sunday School, a sister stated that General Conference talks are scripture. Being the teacher, I challenged her to find something to back that up.

She did a lot of research and found that, although there are supporting statements from the brethren, there isn't anything which explicitly states that General Conference talks are scripture.

In D&C 68:4 it says that when the Lord's servants speak by the power of the Holy Ghost, what they speak is scripture.

There may be lots of talks and articles that fall into this category, but doesn't claiming that all of GC addresses are, and always will be, scripture impose on the agency of the speaker?

I know that the four Standard Works are canonized, but I haven't hear about anything else being added to the list.
Re: What Books Should be Studied as Scripture? [message #361 is a reply to message #360] Mon, 21 May 2012 12:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Welcome Gideon! Nice to see you here.

Gideon wrote on Sun, 20 May 2012 22:50
A few weeks ago in Sunday School, a sister stated that General Conference talks are scripture. Being the teacher, I challenged her to find something to back that up.

She did a lot of research and found that, although there are supporting statements from the brethren, there isn't anything which explicitly states that General Conference talks are scripture.

In D&C 68:4 it says that when the Lord's servants speak by the power of the Holy Ghost, what they speak is scripture.

There may be lots of talks and articles that fall into this category, but doesn't claiming that all of GC addresses are, and always will be, scripture impose on the agency of the speaker?

I know that the four Standard Works are canonized, but I haven't hear about anything else being added to the list.

See the attached talk by President J. Reuben Clark which answers this question with scripture references. President Clark explains,

Quote:
"When Are the Writings and Sermons of Church Leaders Entitled to the Claim of Being Scripture?

I assume the scripture behind this question is the declaration of the Lord in a revelation given through Joseph primarily to Orson Hyde, Luke S. Johnson, Lyman E. Johnson, and William E. M'Lellin, who were to engage in missionary work. After addressing a word first to Orson Hyde, the Lord continued:

"And, behold, and lo, this is an ensample unto all those who were ordained unto this priesthood, whose mission is appointed unto them to go forth-- And this is the ensample unto them, that they shall speak as they are moved upon by the Holy Ghost. And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation. (D&C 68:2-4.)

The very words of the revelation recognize that the Brethren may speak when they are not "moved upon by the Holy Ghost"; yet only when they do speak as "moved upon" is what they say considered scripture. No exceptions are given to this rule or principle. It is universal in its application.

The question is, how shall we know when the things they have spoken were said as they were "moved upon by the Holy Ghost"?

I have given some thought to this question, and the answer thereto, so far as I can determine, is: We can tell when the speakers are "moved upon by the Holy Ghost" only when we, ourselves, are "moved upon by the Holy Ghost." In a way, this completely shifts the responsibility from them to us to determine when they so speak." President J. Reuben Clark


This is based on scripture concepts such as what Nephi explained,

Quote:
"And now I, Nephi, cannot write all the things which were taught among my people; neither am I mighty in writing, like unto speaking; for when a man speaketh by the power of the Holy Ghost the power of the Holy Ghost carrieth it unto the hearts of the children of men." - 2 Nephi 33:1


When we speak by the power of the Holy Ghost, our message is carried to the hearts of the listeners and they receive the message as if it were personal revelation because it comes with the built in witness of the Holy Ghost.

President Clark explains further,

Quote:
"This whole revelation (D&C 50) should be read with great care. There is much instruction given in it. But I wish particularly to call you attention to verses 21 and 22, just quoted:

"Therefore, why is it that ye cannot understand and know, that he that receiveth the word by the Spirit of truth receiveth it as it is preached by the Spirit of truth? Wherefore, he that preacheth and he that receiveth, understand one another, and both are edified and rejoice together."

Both are "moved upon by the Holy Ghost." ." President J. Reuben Clark


Now, even though we have canonized some book and call them scripture, this does not mean that they actually are scripture. They were written by men just as we hear conference talks given by men. We must take the same care and effort to read the canonized books by the spirit to determine those principles, points and doctrines that are truly scripture.

Joseph Smith attempted this with the Bible and it is known as the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible. This version is NOT considered canonized scripture, and there are still errors to be found in it.

While creating this translation, Joseph Smith wrote in the margin a note that stated the entire book, "The Song of Solomon", was uninspired.

Even the Book of Mormon, although it may be "the most correct book" is not a "perfect book". Moroni acknowledges the potential for flaws and says,

Quote:
"And if there be faults they be the faults of a man. But behold, we know no fault; nevertheless God knoweth all things; therefore, he that condemneth, let him be aware lest he shall be in danger of hell fire." - Mormon 8:17


So, whether we are reading Conference talks or canonized scripture, we should be seeking the inspiration of the Holy Ghost to witness what is and is not true.

In addition, the Holy Ghost will witness of truth, ONLY WHEN WE HAVE UNDERSTOOD IT CORRECTLY.

If it witness of truth which we miss understood then it would be giving us a witness of a false understanding. In other words, we would not be able to trust that witness.

In application, this means that even if we are reading or listening to true principles but do not get a witness, then you can be sure that you do not understand it correctly or that it is not true. Either way, it is not scripture to you.

Scripture is ONLY that which you have been taught to you by the Holy Ghost through witness and revelation regardless of who is speaking or what you are reading. The Holy Ghost IS the VOICE of God. Whether we hear it from God directly or through his servants, it is the same process because we receive it by the witness of the Holy Ghost. And that witness is the only true Voice of God to us.

Quote:
"What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.

For behold, and lo, the Lord is God, and the Spirit beareth record, and the record is true, and the truth abideth forever and ever. Amen." D&C 1:38-39


Quote:
"And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation.

Behold, this is the promise of the Lord unto you, O ye my servants." D&C 68:4


[Updated on: Mon, 21 May 2012 12:52]

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Re: What Books Should be Studied as Scripture? [message #362 is a reply to message #361] Mon, 21 May 2012 14:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Great topic. I have heard a Patriarchal Blessing is considered Personal Scripture, and here is a quote to back that up.
Quote:
Further, I would encourage you brethren of the Aaronic Priesthood to receive a patriarchal blessing. Study it carefully and regard it as personal scripture to you--for that is what it is. A patriarchal blessing is the inspired and prophetic statement of your life's mission together with blessings, cautions, and admonitions as the patriarch may be prompted to give. Young men, receive your patriarchal blessing under the influence of fasting and prayer, and then read it regularly that you may know God's will for you.
- President Ezra Taft Benson, General Conference April 1984

I have also been told the hymn book is considered scripture, but I cannot find a good quote to back that up. What's more, I have been told the most recent General Conference talks are the only GC talks considered scripture. Once more, I could not find an official statement. The only statements I could find about what is canonized scripture for The Church of Jesus Christ, is the standard works, which include the Holy Bible, The Book of Mormon, The Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price.

- Dragon


- Dragon
Re: What Books Should be Studied as Scripture? [message #377 is a reply to message #362] Fri, 25 May 2012 21:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Dragon, what you found is the general idea behind my first post. Basically, it is tradition to generally accept the Hymn book or an Ensign or GC talks as scripture, but it is not necessarily doctrine. I have heard things in recent GC addresses that I disagree with, not because that agitate some pet peeve, but because I think that they are just plain wrong.

Like Amonhi points out, we really need to read all things by the power of the Spirit.
Re: What Books Should be Studied as Scripture? [message #378 is a reply to message #361] Fri, 25 May 2012 21:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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It is nice to visit, Amonhi. Smile

In my research, I found some of the same quotes by Pres. Clarke, and passed those on to my student. I particularly liked his statement about how we have to have the Spirit to be able to tell when someone is speaking by the Spirit.

I have a favorite quote by Joseph Fielding Smith on the value and purpose of the Standard Works:

"It makes no difference what is written or what anyone has said, if what has been said is in conflict with what the Lord has revealed, we can set it aside. My words, and the teaching of any other member of the Church, high or low, if they do not square with the revelations, we need not accept them. Let us have this matter clear. We have accepted the four standard works as the measuring yardsticks, or balances, by which we measure every man's doctrine."
(DOCTRINES OF SALVATION, VOL. 3, as quoted in gospelink.com, emphasis mine.)

My other favorite quote on this subject comes from an epistle of the Twelve to the church in 1837:

"Study the word of God, and preach it and not your opinions, for no man's opinion is worth a straw. Advance no principle but what you can prove, for one scriptural proof is worth ten thousand opinions. "
(History of the Church vol 3, as quoted in gospelink.com, emphasis mine)

Although I accept D&C 68, I also believe that everyone who speaks in GC still has their agency, and they can choose to speak something that is not necessarily inspired.
Re: What Books Should be Studied as Scripture? [message #381 is a reply to message #378] Fri, 25 May 2012 22:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Just a couple additional points which have been brought to mind by this wonderful discussion.

I will start with the idea the 4 standard works are the only canonized scripture in the Church. Thus, for something to be canonized scripture, it must be added to one of the standard works, or a new standard work be adopted by the body of the church. A couple of quick examples on this are Official Declarations 1 and 2, as well as some of the last sections of the D&C. So far, The Family: A Proclamation to the World has not been added to the D&C. Perhaps some day it will, and maybe it will not. It is a document with the full backing of the then existing 1st Presidency and the Quorum of the 12. If there was any one document which meets the standard of scripture, but currently falls short of canonized scripture, it is this. Is there anything new in it? I would say yes. I find nowhere in the canonized scripture which states our genders predate this life. Certainly I believe it to be true, but I do not know of any canonized scripture reference to 'prove' it. Until this document, or another like it, is added to the D&C through the existing church process, the doctrine of pre-mortal gender does not official exist in the church.

Now that the ruler has been established, and once you firmly grasp the meaning and content of the entire standard works, there are other resources which will provide a spiritually minded person with greater insights. These include, but are not limited to:
Hymns
General Conference Talks
Blessings given or received
Apocryphal writings
Stake Conference talks
Talks in Sacrament Meeting
Manuals for teaching
Chapter Headings in the Standard Works (not considered canonized scripture, but included for convenience only)
The Bible Dictionary (not considered canonized scripture, but included for convenience only)
Books published by church members or church leaders
Things your seminary teacher said
Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible
Other study guides included in the footnotes of the standard works (such as alternate Hebrew or Greek translations of words)

Yes, that's right. Please keep in mind, not everything in the Quad is canonized scripture. If you don't know where the measuring stick ends, how can you measure anything?

- Dragon


- Dragon
Re: What Books Should be Studied as Scripture? [message #419 is a reply to message #381] Mon, 28 May 2012 23:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JulesGP
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Dragon wrote on Fri, 25 May 2012 22:51
Please keep in mind, not everything in the Quad is canonized scripture.
- Dragon

Dragon, can you tell me which things are not canonized by the Church - if there is anything in addition to the headings? I did not know this about the quads. I thought those chapter headings were church canon as well! Shocked


~Jules

[Updated on: Mon, 28 May 2012 23:24]

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Re: What Books Should be Studied as Scripture? [message #420 is a reply to message #381] Mon, 28 May 2012 23:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JulesGP
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Dragon wrote on Fri, 25 May 2012 22:51

Now that the ruler has been established, and once you firmly grasp the meaning and content of the entire standard works, there are other resources which will provide a spiritually minded person with greater insights. These include, but are not limited to:
Hymns
General Conference Talks
Blessings given or received
Apocryphal writings
Stake Conference talks
Talks in Sacrament Meeting
Manuals for teaching
Chapter Headings in the Standard Works (not considered canonized scripture, but included for convenience only)
The Bible Dictionary (not considered canonized scripture, but included for convenience only)
Books published by church members or church leaders
Things your seminary teacher said
Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible
Other study guides included in the footnotes of the standard works (such as alternate Hebrew or Greek translations of words)

I've also found a lot of valuable nuggets from this website: http://www.sacred-texts.com/index.htm


~Jules
Re: What Books Should be Studied as Scripture? [message #425 is a reply to message #420] Tue, 29 May 2012 14:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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The QUAD contains four sections, hence the name. Let's examine the history of each one to reveal what is canon and what is 'helpful'.

The King James Version of the Bible was completed in 1611. Our canon includes that text, as it was then, with certain formatting changes, such as the addition of verses. Everything else in that section is meant to help the student, and is not considered canon. The chapter headings were written by Bruce R. McConkie and included in the 1979 printing of the LDS format of the KJV. To my knowledge, there was never a vote to accept or deny these chapter headings or other footnotes and maps as canon. Furthermore, Bruce R. McConkie wrote the Bible Dictionary, which has also never been canonized. If you read the preface to the Bible Dictionary, it says The Bible Dictionary Quote:
... is not intended as an official or revealed endorsement by the Church of the doctrinal, historical, cultural, and other matters set forth.

Further more, the JST excerpts in the back have no more backing to them than the rest of the footnotes. If the JST were canon, we would read the JST Bible, and not the KJV.

The Book of Mormon was published in 1830, and no additions or changes have been canonized since then, other than those which are intended to correct spelling, punctuation, or grammar. Once more, the chapter headings were added by Bruce R. McConkie and the footnotes are there for convenience. Only the text as it was originally translated by Joseph Smith is canon.

The Doctrine and Covenants. Finally, a book of living scripture! This is one book which can be and has been updated. Most of the content is from 1844 and prior, with the following canonized additions:
Section 136 in 1847
Official Declaration 1 in 1890
Section 138 in 1918
Official Declaration 2 in 1978

If you notice each section has two section headings. The first are canon, and the second are for convenience as added by Bruce R. McConkie. If there is scripture revealed to the prophet, which the Lord sees fit to canonize, it will most likely be added to the D&C.

The Pearl of Great Price. This book is a collection of things, most notably sections from the JST which ARE canonized by inclusion in the Pearl. Then there is the testimony of Joseph Smith himself, and the Book of Abraham which he translated from the scrolls found in Egypt. Last, to complete the canon, are the Articles of Faith.

If you go to LDS.org and select the scriptures, you will see a link for Study Helps. This includes many of the things I have identified as included but not canonized. I have personally found errors in the placement of verses in the Topical Guide of the Bible, and believe some of the chapter headings to be wrong. Bruce R. McConkie was a great man, with a lot of resources at his disposal when he completed these Study Helps. They are a wonderful tool, but they do fall short of being canonized. If we consider the Bible Dictionary scripture, we should also include Mormon Doctrine and Jesus the Christ, which had at least as much time, effort, and inspiration poured into them.

- Dragon


- Dragon
Re: What Books Should be Studied as Scripture? [message #428 is a reply to message #425] Tue, 29 May 2012 14:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JulesGP
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Thanks for this additional info Dragon! This is helpful!

~Jules
Re: What Books Should be Studied as Scripture? [message #519 is a reply to message #425] Tue, 19 June 2012 17:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Seeker is currently offline  Seeker
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Excellent history Dragon.

Quote:
The chapter headings were written by Bruce R. McConkie and included in the 1979 printing of the LDS format of the KJV. To my knowledge, there was never a vote to accept or deny these chapter headings or other footnotes and maps as canon.

This is easy to see when you are looking for it. Some of his chapter headings are harmless, but then some actually change what the scripture is saying. For example, D&C 22:2-4,

The chapter heading says these verse are saying:
Quote:
verses 24, Authoritative baptism is required.


The actual verses say:
Quote:
2 Wherefore, although a man should be baptized an hundred times it availeth him nothing, for you cannot enter in at the strait gate by the law of Moses, neither by your dead works.

3 For it is because of your dead works that I have caused this last covenant and this church to be built up unto me, even as in days of old.


This says nothing about Authorization or priesthood to baptize. McConkie was simply trying to make sense of the passages and missed the point. To the contrary, McConkie missed the fact that the the law of Moses was full of dead works and had the Aaronic Priesthood which was required to perform those dead works, including baptism by immersion.

Quote:
Therefore, he took Moses out of their midst, and the Holy Priesthood also;
26 And the lesser priesthood continued, which priesthood holdeth the key of the ministering of angels and the preparatory gospel;
27 Which gospel is the gospel of repentance and of baptism, and the remission of sins, and the law of carnal commandments, which the Lord in his wrath caused to continue with the house of Aaron among the children of Israel until John, whom God raised up, being filled with the Holy Ghost from his mother's womb.


Back to my point, the message of verses 2-4 of D&C 22 has nothing to do with authority. The Lord is making an entirely different point. If you accepted McConkie's chapter heading as authoritative, then you would miss some very important points the Lord was trying to make clear.

Quote:
Further more, the JST excerpts in the back have no more backing to them than the rest of the footnotes. If the JST were canon, we would read the JST Bible, and not the KJV.
This is also correct as there are a number of JST changes to the original bible which I have found to be flawed. It is really annoying because it pits the canonized bible against the prophet Joseph Smith. The problem is that neither is 100% correct in every doctrine. So you have to believe all things and see which ones get a witness from the spirit and also begin to support each other.

Quote:
The Book of Mormon was published in 1830, and no additions or changes have been canonized since then, other than those which are intended to correct spelling, punctuation, or grammar
That isn't entirely true. 3913 Changes have been made to the book of Mormon since its first publishing. Here is an example of one of them:

Book of Alma p.315; (1830):
"But behold, as the seed swelleth and sprouteth and beginneth to grow, and then ye must needs say, That seed is good; for behold, it swelleth and sprouteth and beginneth to grow."

Today: Alma 32:30:
"But behold, as the seed swelleth and sprouteth and beginneth to grow, and then ye must needs say, That seed is good; for behold, it swelleth and sprouteth and beginneth to grow. And now behold, will not this strengthen your faith? Yea, it will strengthen your faith: for ye will say that I know that this is a good seed; for behold, it sprouteth and beginneth to grow."

The punctuation is also not inspired and I have found places where moving a comma changes the entire meaning of a verse, which makes the verse agreeable to the witness of the spirit.
Re: What Books Should be Studied as Scripture? [message #520 is a reply to message #519] Tue, 19 June 2012 19:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JulesGP
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I just got my copy of "The Book of Mormon, The Earliest Text", edited by Royal Skousen. It's kind of an amalgamation of the original manuscript as Joseph Smith dictated - written in the hand of the scribes who worked with him, the printer's manuscript, and twenty significant printed editions. He spent twenty years on this project to come up with the most accurate version of the BOM. He includes notations of the changes.

For example, 2 Nephi 30:6 was changed in the 1981 edition after Blacks were allowed by the church to receive the Priesthood, which "softened" it from:

6 And then shall they rejoice: for they shall know that it is a blessing unto them from the hand of God; and their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white and a delightsome people.

To:

6 And then shall they rejoice; for they shall know that it is a blessing unto them from the hand of God; and their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a pure and a delightsome people.

So the book includes the most original version as it can be determined, and these variations and which versions they came from are noted and listed in the back of the book.

The book is also written without the BRM headers, and without the separations - in other words, it reads like a book (though the scripture separations are in the sidebar for reference). It's interesting to read it this way, because when the verses are separated, it can IMPLY meaning or emphasis where it shouldn't be, and can change the meaning or understanding. Like Seeker said, even a comma can change the meaning of a scripture.


~Jules
Re: What Books Should be Studied as Scripture? [message #521 is a reply to message #520] Tue, 19 June 2012 19:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JulesGP
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My opinion though on the original post - "What Books Should be Studied as Scripture?", is that any book or writing that testifies of truth and is supported by the Spirit can be considered scripture. But that may be different for everyone - as the Spirit testifies of different truths to everyone, at different times, and when they are ready to receive them. For example, my mother believes that Apocryphal writings are garbage because of a quote by Joseph Smith and that we SHOULD NOT read them (because they can "lead us astray....", etc...). So if she were to read them, she may not get anything out of them, and they certainly would not be scriptural for her. I have read a lot from Apocryphal writings and have had the spirit testify of some amazing truths and nuggets I've come across that helped piece together other things I was studying... so I believe that those things could be considered scripture FOR ME. Even with the canonized scriptures - as has been discussed, we still need to Spirit to testify of the truthfulness and accuracy of those, and to validate or correct our understanding, and to discern which things are not accurate or not sending the message that was intended.

~Jules

[Updated on: Tue, 19 June 2012 19:34]

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Re: What Books Should be Studied as Scripture? [message #524 is a reply to message #521] Tue, 19 June 2012 22:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon is currently offline  Dragon
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The church has made statements that the corrections made are an attempt to bring the text as close as possible to what Joseph Smith actually translated. Missing phrases added back in is understandable.
However, I am a bit disturbed by changing white to pure. I can understand why the church leadership found it necessary. I know the church is led by men, and not by angels. I debated awhile back in my scripture study about using the paragraph markings and unifying the verses back together. Based on these comments, I think I will, especially because I have already read them in their current form, and perhaps it will give me new insights.

- Dragon


- Dragon
Re: What Books Should be Studied as Scripture? [message #525 is a reply to message #524] Tue, 19 June 2012 23:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JulesGP
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Dragon wrote on Tue, 19 June 2012 22:03
The church has made statements that the corrections made are an attempt to bring the text as close as possible to what Joseph Smith actually translated. Missing phrases added back in is understandable.
However,I am a bit disturbed by changing white to pure. I can understand why the church leadership found it necessary. I know the church is led by men, and not by angels. I debated awhile back in my scripture study about using the paragraph markings and unifying the verses back together. Based on these comments, I think I will, especially because I have already read them in their current form, and perhaps it will give me new insights.

- Dragon

I was very disturbed by it when I discovered this change in particular. I don't think that the church has any business changing the scriptures to be "less offensive" when God deemed the words to be GOOD. I have "issues" with the church correlation department period. Sad


~Jules
Re: What Books Should be Studied as Scripture? [message #526 is a reply to message #521] Tue, 19 June 2012 23:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Seeker is currently offline  Seeker
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Location: Las Vegas
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JulesGP wrote on Tue, 19 June 2012 19:31
My opinion though on the original post - "What Books Should be Studied as Scripture?", is that any book or writing that testifies of truth and is supported by the Spirit can be considered scripture. But that may be different for everyone - as the Spirit testifies of different truths to everyone, at different times, and when they are ready to receive them. For example, my mother believes that Apocryphal writings are garbage because of a quote by Joseph Smith and that we SHOULD NOT read them (because they can "lead us astray....", etc...). So if she were to read them, she may not get anything out of them, and they certainly would not be scriptural for her. I have read a lot from Apocryphal writings and have had the spirit testify of some amazing truths and nuggets I've come across that helped piece together other things I was studying... so I believe that those things could be considered scripture FOR ME. Even with the canonized scriptures - as has been discussed, we still need to Spirit to testify of the truthfulness and accuracy of those, and to validate or correct our understanding, and to discern which things are not accurate or not sending the message that was intended.

Well said, I agree completely!


~ Seeker
Re: What Books Should be Studied as Scripture? [message #624 is a reply to message #526] Sun, 08 July 2012 00:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JulesGP
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Although this was directed at missionaries in the church at the time, I believe it applies to all:

Quote:
4 And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation.


~Jules
Re: What Books Should be Studied as Scripture? [message #626 is a reply to message #624] Sun, 08 July 2012 01:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon is currently offline  Dragon
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Scripture is anything which is the word of God. Canonized Scripture is a small subset of scripture which the church has approved and accepted as scripture. The rest of scripture is called apocryphal writings, which contain some scripture, and some philosophies of men mingled with scripture. By following the Spirit, we can learn the difference. All scripture is for the edification of all.

A question then. Is the Rod of Iron all scripture, or only the canonized scripture?


- Dragon
Re: What Books Should be Studied as Scripture? [message #743 is a reply to message #626] Sat, 28 July 2012 14:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
zephyr is currently offline  zephyr
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For those who want an easy to use interlinear Bible which shows the Greek and Hebrew, along with translations, I highly recommend:
http://scripture4all.org/
Re: What Books Should be Studied as Scripture? [message #744 is a reply to message #743] Sat, 28 July 2012 15:17 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
JulesGP
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Registered: May 2012
Location: Davis County, UT
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Zephyr, this is so cool! I have literally been looking for something like this the past couple of weeks! Thank you for posting it!!

~Jules
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