Elliaison.org - Forum
Elliaison.org forum is a free discussion group focused on the persuit of truth and spiritual knowledge from every source.

Home » The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints » LDS Deep Doctrine » What Books Should be Studied as Scripture? (Recent Discoveries of Ancient Scripture...)
Re: What Books Should be Studied as Scripture? [message #361 is a reply to message #360] Mon, 21 May 2012 12:51 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Amonhi is currently offline  Amonhi
Messages: 237
Registered: June 2010
Location: Las Vegas, NV.
Senior Member
Welcome Gideon! Nice to see you here.

Gideon wrote on Sun, 20 May 2012 22:50
A few weeks ago in Sunday School, a sister stated that General Conference talks are scripture. Being the teacher, I challenged her to find something to back that up.

She did a lot of research and found that, although there are supporting statements from the brethren, there isn't anything which explicitly states that General Conference talks are scripture.

In D&C 68:4 it says that when the Lord's servants speak by the power of the Holy Ghost, what they speak is scripture.

There may be lots of talks and articles that fall into this category, but doesn't claiming that all of GC addresses are, and always will be, scripture impose on the agency of the speaker?

I know that the four Standard Works are canonized, but I haven't hear about anything else being added to the list.

See the attached talk by President J. Reuben Clark which answers this question with scripture references. President Clark explains,

Quote:
"When Are the Writings and Sermons of Church Leaders Entitled to the Claim of Being Scripture?

I assume the scripture behind this question is the declaration of the Lord in a revelation given through Joseph primarily to Orson Hyde, Luke S. Johnson, Lyman E. Johnson, and William E. M'Lellin, who were to engage in missionary work. After addressing a word first to Orson Hyde, the Lord continued:

"And, behold, and lo, this is an ensample unto all those who were ordained unto this priesthood, whose mission is appointed unto them to go forth-- And this is the ensample unto them, that they shall speak as they are moved upon by the Holy Ghost. And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation. (D&C 68:2-4.)

The very words of the revelation recognize that the Brethren may speak when they are not "moved upon by the Holy Ghost"; yet only when they do speak as "moved upon" is what they say considered scripture. No exceptions are given to this rule or principle. It is universal in its application.

The question is, how shall we know when the things they have spoken were said as they were "moved upon by the Holy Ghost"?

I have given some thought to this question, and the answer thereto, so far as I can determine, is: We can tell when the speakers are "moved upon by the Holy Ghost" only when we, ourselves, are "moved upon by the Holy Ghost." In a way, this completely shifts the responsibility from them to us to determine when they so speak." President J. Reuben Clark


This is based on scripture concepts such as what Nephi explained,

Quote:
"And now I, Nephi, cannot write all the things which were taught among my people; neither am I mighty in writing, like unto speaking; for when a man speaketh by the power of the Holy Ghost the power of the Holy Ghost carrieth it unto the hearts of the children of men." - 2 Nephi 33:1


When we speak by the power of the Holy Ghost, our message is carried to the hearts of the listeners and they receive the message as if it were personal revelation because it comes with the built in witness of the Holy Ghost.

President Clark explains further,

Quote:
"This whole revelation (D&C 50) should be read with great care. There is much instruction given in it. But I wish particularly to call you attention to verses 21 and 22, just quoted:

"Therefore, why is it that ye cannot understand and know, that he that receiveth the word by the Spirit of truth receiveth it as it is preached by the Spirit of truth? Wherefore, he that preacheth and he that receiveth, understand one another, and both are edified and rejoice together."

Both are "moved upon by the Holy Ghost." ." President J. Reuben Clark


Now, even though we have canonized some book and call them scripture, this does not mean that they actually are scripture. They were written by men just as we hear conference talks given by men. We must take the same care and effort to read the canonized books by the spirit to determine those principles, points and doctrines that are truly scripture.

Joseph Smith attempted this with the Bible and it is known as the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible. This version is NOT considered canonized scripture, and there are still errors to be found in it.

While creating this translation, Joseph Smith wrote in the margin a note that stated the entire book, "The Song of Solomon", was uninspired.

Even the Book of Mormon, although it may be "the most correct book" is not a "perfect book". Moroni acknowledges the potential for flaws and says,

Quote:
"And if there be faults they be the faults of a man. But behold, we know no fault; nevertheless God knoweth all things; therefore, he that condemneth, let him be aware lest he shall be in danger of hell fire." - Mormon 8:17


So, whether we are reading Conference talks or canonized scripture, we should be seeking the inspiration of the Holy Ghost to witness what is and is not true.

In addition, the Holy Ghost will witness of truth, ONLY WHEN WE HAVE UNDERSTOOD IT CORRECTLY.

If it witness of truth which we miss understood then it would be giving us a witness of a false understanding. In other words, we would not be able to trust that witness.

In application, this means that even if we are reading or listening to true principles but do not get a witness, then you can be sure that you do not understand it correctly or that it is not true. Either way, it is not scripture to you.

Scripture is ONLY that which you have been taught to you by the Holy Ghost through witness and revelation regardless of who is speaking or what you are reading. The Holy Ghost IS the VOICE of God. Whether we hear it from God directly or through his servants, it is the same process because we receive it by the witness of the Holy Ghost. And that witness is the only true Voice of God to us.

Quote:
"What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.

For behold, and lo, the Lord is God, and the Spirit beareth record, and the record is true, and the truth abideth forever and ever. Amen." D&C 1:38-39


Quote:
"And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation.

Behold, this is the promise of the Lord unto you, O ye my servants." D&C 68:4


[Updated on: Mon, 21 May 2012 12:52]

Report message to a moderator

 
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Read Message
Previous Topic: Phases of the Light of Christ
Next Topic: The Pre-Mortal Council's Agenda
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Fri Nov 22 15:00:48 MST 2024