Home » The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints » Current Church Doctrine » Sustaining our Saviors Plan in this Life (Plan Vs Plan which do we support through our actions?)
| Sustaining our Saviors Plan in this Life [message #3420] |
Fri, 13 February 2015 12:49  |
Michael Davis
Messages: 7
Registered: January 2015
Location: Montana
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Junior Member |
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Do we as Christians of the LDS faith sustain our Savior's Plan of Salvation in this life? Do our Actions show which plan we sustain? Do we as Christians promote Agency?
First, It is so important to remember that we are Sons and Daughters of our Heavenly Father. We lived with him in the pre-mortal. And in the pre-mortal we were presented with at least two plans of salvation. Jehovah (our Savior) offered himself to fulfill the Law as a way to salvation, a plan of Agency and Freedom. Lucifer, then offered a plan of Guarantee, there would be NO failure, because none would be given the opportunity to fail. There would be No Freedom and No Agency. Our beloved Father sustained Jehovah's plan and Lucifer revolted, taking with him a 1/3 of our Heavenly brother and sister's. These brother and sisters feared Jehovah's plan and we're in favor of Lucifer and his plan. They feared the possibility of failure.
Brothers and Sisters, I tell you now that you are part of the 2/3's of Heaven that stood up in support of Jehovah's plan. You yourself personally sustained our Savior's plan to bring all who would believe on his name. You yourself personally sustained our Savior's plan of Freedom and Agency.
Lucifer, that old serpent has spent every day since, working diligently, still trying to implement his plan upon us. Tirelessly working to bring mankind into the bondage promised in the same plan he offered in the pre-mortal.
I believe that this country was and is a country ordained by our Lord and Savior. I believe HE touch and inspired our countries founding fathers in the writing of our precious constitution. He gave them guidance and inspiration in a country founded on the principles of freedom and agency. These Freedoms and Agency have been under attack since its conception, Lucifer has not conceded his plan, he is still fighting to implement his plan of forcible following. To bring us to the forcible submission promised in His (Lucifer's) pre-mortal plan. He utilizes all who will help. In this instance given "most of our government officials, to take our Freedom and Agency. He will continue to do so up until the day this world become a Terrestrial world again and returns to the days of Adam and Eve. Until the glorious days of the Millennium, He and All who follow him will continue to work toward His plan of oppression.
Brothers and sister, with Agency coming under constant attack by Lucifer and all who supported and sustained His plan in this life and in the pre-mortal. Let us again stand up and sustain the plan of our Savior.
For us to properly sustain His plan we must look and realize that anytime we support, sustain or infringe on the ability of our brothers and sisters of this Telestial fallen world, and their ability to have personal agency, we are in fact supporting and sustaining Lucifer's plan. Of trying to forcible make other believe as we believe, or we try to make laws to bring them into accordance with our view points. We are in fact sustaining Lucifer's plan.
Does this mean we shouldn't stand up for what we believe to be true, absolutely not. This can be a very slippery slope, but its very important that we stay on the Saviors side of the plan. We must allow all to believe how and what they may.
Let use for instance one of the most heated debates in the world today. Homosexuality, in Russia and many other countries it is against the Law. In fact Russia took it up a notch just last week and made a new law that if your homosexual you cannot have a drivers license. Because if your moral compass is that messed up you can't be trusted behind the wheel of a car. These are both examples of Lucifer's plan. We should never ban anything that comes down to someone's choice or ability to choose "IF" it effects only their salvation and does not pertain to our own.
Does this mean we should stand up and support homosexuality? NO, absolutely not, but it does mean we should be tolerant and support their ability to choose. We should work with them to understand the consequences of their actions and try to bring them to Christ.
Does this mean we should support Homosexual marriage? No absolutely not, we can stand up in support of our Fathers Celestial Law of Marriage. But we should support their rights to have the same rights of married couples that are Man and Woman.
Our Apostle Elder Neil L. Andersen, Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, said this in his talk "Spiritual Whirlwinds" at General Conference in April 2014.
Quote:While many governments and well-meaning individuals have redefined marriage, the Lord has not. In the very beginning, God initiated marriage between a man and a woman--Adam and Eve. He designated the purposes of marriage to go far beyond the personal satisfaction and fulfillment of adults to, more importantly, advancing the ideal setting for children to be born, reared, and nurtured. Families are the treasure of heaven.
Why do we continue to talk about this? As Paul said, "We look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen." As Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ, we have the responsibility to teach our Creator's plan for His children and to warn of the consequences of disregarding His commandments.
Recently, I spoke with a Laurel from the United States. I quote from her email:
Quote:"This past year some of my friends on Facebook began posting their position on marriage. Many favored same-sex marriage, and several LDS youth indicated they 'liked' the postings. I made no comment.
"I decided to declare my belief in traditional marriage in a thoughtful way.
"With my profile picture, I added the caption 'I believe in marriage between a man and a woman.' Almost instantly I started receiving messages. 'You are selfish.' 'You are judgmental.' One compared me to a slave owner. And I received this post from a great friend who is a strong member of the Church: 'You need to catch up with the times. Things are changing and so should you.'
"I did not fight back," she said, "but I did not take my statement down."
She concludes: "Sometimes, as President Monson said, 'You have to stand alone.' Hopefully as youth, we will stand together in being true to God and to the teachings of His living prophets".
Of special concern to us should be those who struggle with same-sex attraction. It is a whirlwind of enormous velocity. I want to express my love and admiration for those who courageously confront this trial of faith and stay true to the commandments of God! But everyone, independent of his or her decisions and beliefs, deserves our kindness and consideration.
The Savior taught us to love not only our friends but also those who disagree with us--and even those who repudiate us. He said: "For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? ... And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others?"
The Prophet Joseph Smith warned us to "beware of self-righteousness" and to enlarge our hearts toward all men and women until we feel "to take them upon our shoulders." In the gospel of Jesus Christ, there is no place for ridicule, bullying, or bigotry.
Although I use an openly debated world topic for the sake of this example. The very same principle is in play in everyday life, all the time, even if only in our heads we are saying thing like... They shouldn't wear that to church! Or they shouldn't talk like that! Or they should use their money and do more good! Or "ANYTIME" we place unfair judgments on any of our brothers and sister in "ANY DEGREE", we are in fact supporting Lucifer's plan.
I stand and give my testimony that I support and sustain our Savior's plan of Salvation. I support the Agency our brother and sisters have been given and there ability to choose sin. I hope and pray that All (including myself) might come to a greater understanding of our Savior and have the Agency to choose Him and His plan of salvation.
Michael Davis
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| Re: Sustaining our Saviors Plan in this Life [message #3428 is a reply to message #3426] |
Sun, 05 April 2015 13:06  |
Michael Davis
Messages: 7
Registered: January 2015
Location: Montana
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Junior Member |
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Jdowntown
Thank you very much for your response. I haven't been one elliaison in a couple weeks and just saw your post. I appreciate any person who is willing give their point of view. I also love the "King Follett Discourse", there is much to learn from it. With that said, let me ask you this.... "Do you believe that Lucifer's plan was one of Agency"?
Your Friend
Michael Davis
Michael Christopher Davis
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| Re: Sustaining our Saviors Plan in this Life [message #3432 is a reply to message #3420] |
Mon, 06 April 2015 19:45 |
jdowntown
Messages: 8
Registered: October 2013
Location: Kansas City
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Junior Member |
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In short, no. My understanding is that the adversary's plan violated agency.
The longer version. In my reading, the Prophet Joseph thought that the adversary's plan was intended to save those who committed the unpardonable sin (in other words the sons of perdition). This is from reading the King Follett discourse, as well as at least one other address which I do not have a handy reference for. I trust the Prophet on this matter.
I think this sheds new light on just what agency then is. Yes, it is the ability/right to choose our actions (the common definition), but it is also the fact that those choices are consequential, binding, significant, and relevant as well. The choices matter! Thus God said in the council, there will be some who choose to sin against the Holy Ghost and those who do must be cast to outer darkness. The adversary then stated that he could save even them. Was through denying people the chance to commit the unpardonable sin? Or rather was it to take the sting away, to say, it does not matter what you have done. He proposed to save those that have had the heavens open to them, and then turn away, crucify Christ afresh and put Him to an open shame. Such a thought makes a mockery of agency. What good is the ability to choose if the outcome is not dependent on the choice? Same concept as eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we die and then it shall be well with us.
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| Re: Sustaining our Saviors Plan in this Life [message #3434 is a reply to message #3432] |
Wed, 08 April 2015 21:41 |
Michael Davis
Messages: 7
Registered: January 2015
Location: Montana
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Junior Member |
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When Lucifer stated that he could save all God's children, he was most certainly offering a plan without agency. The same agency that Adam fell for, that man might have joy. (2 Nephi) Without Agency there would be very little spiritual growth and no true joy. You can only appreciate how great it is to feel healthy, once you've been sick.
We have to also consider "the kingdom of God is not filthy, and there cannot any unclean thing enter into the kingdom of God" (1 Nephi). Therefore if Lucifer was going to return every soul with a guaranty then we must conclude that man would have to be clean? The only way for that to be possible is if there was no agency? Thus taking with it the ability for us to become unclean?
But Father had a grander plan, that man might be and that we might find joy. He gave us our cake with the ability to eat it to, through our beloved Savior (Jehovah).
I also love your reference to (Hebews 6), it is important to understand what its meaning is, when it speaks of Crucifying our Savior afresh. In fact to understand the Atonement we must understand this verse. I will give you a hint.... It doesn't have to do with the falling away that crucifies are Savior afresh.
Quote:For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Again I would just like to say thank you, for putting your beliefs out there for all to see.....
Your Friend
Michael Davis
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