Home » The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints » LDS Deep Doctrine » Will there be other Saviors for other worlds? (Was the Savior Jesus Christ the only Savior there will ever be, or will there/have there been others?)
| Re: Will there be other Saviors for other worlds? [message #2084 is a reply to message #1408] |
Thu, 24 January 2013 22:17   |
zephyr
Messages: 129
Registered: May 2012
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35 But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them
(Moses 1:35)
What happens when our world "pass[es] away", when it is no longer a home for mortals? Will our Heavenly Parents cease to create, populate and exalt? Or, will there be yet another batch of 100 billion children, with a new Firstborn?
Considering the terms Father, Son and Holy Ghost as titles, instead of specific individuals, was helpful to me. Thinking of the term "God" as a collection of attributes in their perfection is also expansive.
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| Re: Will there be other Saviors for other worlds? [message #2309 is a reply to message #1006] |
Thu, 14 March 2013 13:43 |
zone
Messages: 17
Registered: March 2013
Location: Middle Earth
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Junior Member |
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Not to bump an old thread but I'll leave my 2 cents.
If God did not suffer like Christ that means Christ would be greater than God. That doesn't seem right.
Christ was not perfect until he suffered for all and than died on the Cross. Look at his appearance in 3 Nephi 11, He adds in the Words "This is my beloeved son whom I am well pleased" Than says "Who is perfect even as I am perfect" Paraphrasing so sorry if I butchered it. In the new testament he does not say Christ is perfect. He became perfect when he died and suffered.
now Joseph Smith stated, I do only what i see the father do. Referring to Christ. Christ tells us I do only what I see God do. What did God do? Well look at Christ and you will know what God did.
The question arises, when did Christ ever see what God did relating to Gethsemane and the crucifixion? I wondered if this is why he asked paul to watch with him yet couldn't...
Joseph f Smith answers that question, Truman G madsen shares this quote in his teachings on either Joseph Smith or the New testament. (can't find it at the moment so ill paraphrase) He says it was shown unto Christ in a vision what the Father did before him so that he could do what he saw the father do.
Thus we go from exaltation to exaltation until we obtain the ressurection of the Dead and have power to take up our life or to lay it own. Until we ourselves have been perfected. How can we expect to be a God living 100% on borrowed forgiveness through the atonement. Its not enough to be as God and a God if we ourselves will have a firstborn to be a Christ. He would be greater than we are. A Son doing something he did not see the father do! Thus we must all become the first begotten of the flesh by God. Receive a almost perfected godlike body in the flesh to work out our perfection. Than we will be the firstborn. After all after this life we will become "the church of the firstborn". Which I assume to mean the church to prepare us to enter into the next kingdom (kolob). Just like the LDS church prepares us to enter into the Terrestial kingdom.
Kolob comes from the temple symbolish, earth stones, moon stones, sun stones, and above that saturn stones which represents Kolob. "If I could hie to kolob" hymn speaks this beautifully.
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| Re: Will there be other Saviors for other worlds? [message #2467 is a reply to message #1006] |
Sat, 18 May 2013 07:51 |
janderich
Messages: 2
Registered: May 2013
Location: West Jordan, Utah
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Junior Member |
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A couple of other quotes that have spurred my thinking...
On the Holy Ghost Joseph Smith was also attributed as saying.Quote:The Holy Ghost is yet a spiritual body and is waiting to take to himself a body, as the Savior did."[Joseph Smith, Encyclopedia of Joseph Smith's Teachings, edited by Larry E. Dahl and Donald Q. Cannon (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1997)]
Also on the extent of the atonement and Saviors of other worlds Brigham Young once stated. Quote:Every world has had an Adam and an Eve, named so simply because the first man is always called Adam and the first woman, Eve. And the oldest son has always had the privilege of being ordained, appointed and called to be the heir of the family if he does not rebel against the Father, and he is the Savior of the family. Every world that has been created has been created upon the same principle. They may vary in their varieties, yet the eternity is one: it is one eternal round. (Brigham Young, "For This Is Life Eternal," Brigham Young Addresses, edited by Elden Watson, 2:230.)
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| Re: Will there be other Saviors for other worlds? [message #2491 is a reply to message #1006] |
Fri, 24 May 2013 11:41 |
zone
Messages: 17
Registered: March 2013
Location: Middle Earth
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Christ is the christ of all worldds he created. But I would assume there are only one telestial world, others are terrestial.
Quote:What is significant about the shedding and sacrificing of blood?
The answer to this is the meaning of the atonement. All things point to Christ and his sacrifice. So what is the significance of the atonement and how does it work in the eternal worlds? No answer here. Its symbolic of purifying, becoming clean. Also Christ suffered to cleanse the blood of the wicked. Yet he did so suffering thus purifying himself.
Suffering through the shedding of blood perfects. Thats all i know. Why I don't know. Perhaps its a sign of "elemental" subjection to the spirit, thus showing perfect obedience to the spirit. Really confusing concept.
Similar concept:
Quote:Alma 1:13-14
13 And thou hast shed the blood of a righteous man, yea, a man who has done much good among this people; and were we to spare thee his blood would come upon us for vengeance.
14 Therefore thou art condemned to die, according to the law which has been given us by Mosiah, our last king; and it has been acknowledged by this people; therefore this people must abide by the law.
Quotes for Discussion
President Charles W. Penrose, speaking of capital punishment, has said:
'This divine law for shedding the blood of a murderer has never been repealed. It is a law given by the Almighty and not abrogated in the Christian faith. It stands on record for all time--that a murderer shall have his blood shed. He that commits murder must be slain. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed. I know there are some benevolent and philanthropic people in these times who think that capital punishment ought to be abolished. Yet I think the Lord knows better than they. The law he ordained will have the best results to mankind in general.'" (Answers to Gospel Questions, vol. 1, P. 189)
Joseph Fielding Smith
"There is a growing notion in the world today that it is adding a crime to a crime to take the life of those who deliberately murder--a cruel retaliation which cannot benefit the murdered person and likewise the murderer can reap no benefits therefrom. The real purpose which the Lord gave for the taking of life has long been forgotten. The taking of the life of the murderer was never intended to be a benefit to the murdered person or even a benefit to humanity. It was intended to be a benefit to the murderer himself. There are sins which cannot be forgiven, except by the guilty person paying a price by the shedding of his blood. Capital punishment was to benefit the guilty to obtain a better resurrection when the sin had been one unto death." (Answers to Gospel Questions, vol. 3, p. 104)
[Updated on: Fri, 24 May 2013 11:42] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Will there be other Saviors for other worlds? [message #2574 is a reply to message #1006] |
Tue, 18 June 2013 02:52 |
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Elejian
Messages: 39
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"How many earths are there? I observed this morning that you may take the particles of matter composing this earth, and if they could be enumerated they would only be a beginning to the number of the creations of God; and they are continually coming into existence, and undergoing changes and passing through the same experience that we are passing through. Sin is upon every earth that ever was created, and if it was not so, I would like some philosophers to let us know how people can be exalted to become sons of God, and enjoy a fulness of glory with the Redeemer. Consequently every earth has its redeemer, and every earth has its tempter; and every earth, and the people thereof, in their turn and time, receive all that we receive, and pass through all the ordeals that we are passing through" (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 14:71-2, emphasis added).
"And he cometh into the world that he may save all men if they will hearken unto his voice; for behold, he suffereth the pains of all men, yea, the pains of every living creature, both men, women, and children, who belong to the family of Adam" (2 Nephi 9:21, emphasis added).
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| Re: Will there be other Saviors for other worlds? [message #2636 is a reply to message #2574] |
Mon, 05 August 2013 23:45 |
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JulesGP
Messages: 357
Registered: May 2012
Location: Davis County, UT
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Elejian wrote on Tue, 18 June 2013 02:52
"And he cometh into the world that he may save all men if they will hearken unto his voice; for behold, he suffereth the pains of all men, yea, the pains of every living creature, both men, women, and children, who belong to the family of Adam" (2 Nephi 9:21, emphasis added).[/size]
WOW Elejian!! That is pretty specific!! Thank you for posting this! (BTW, I like your Mer-Ka-Ba avatar  ).
~Jules
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| Re: Will there be other Saviors for other worlds? [message #2661 is a reply to message #1498] |
Mon, 12 August 2013 22:04 |
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Sheol27
Messages: 49
Registered: April 2013
Location: Wyoming
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It has taken me some time to come to terms with the Father being a Savior before but I believe through personal prayer and study I am finally there. 12 years ago I used to argue against this doctrine so much! I didn't want to believe the Father was a Savior! Because of what the pattern would imply.
Joseph Smith said, "What did Jesus say? (Mark it, Elder Rigdon!) The scriptures inform us that Jesus said, as the Father hath power in himself, even so hath the Son power--to do what? Why, what the Father did. The answer is obvious--in a manner to lay down his body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again."
Who lays down there body and takes it up again? Jesus laid down His body in a sense when He said, "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit." It is my opinion that a Savior lays down his body (for a sacrifice for sin) and takes it up again. If the pattern is correct and the Father was a Savior, and Christ is a Savior, then I believe that in another place that I will need to be a Savior to eventually become Perfect like the Father and to become Perfect like the Son was after He was resurrected. I believe this to be a path to godhood.
On another note.... I have not came across anything implying that women would have to be saviors. Does this mean the men get to feel what Christ did in Gethsemane and the women get to deal with child birth? Just curious.....
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| Re: Will there be other Saviors for other worlds? [message #2663 is a reply to message #2661] |
Mon, 12 August 2013 22:30 |
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JulesGP
Messages: 357
Registered: May 2012
Location: Davis County, UT
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Sheol27 wrote on Mon, 12 August 2013 22:04It has taken me some time to come to terms with the Father being a Savior before but I believe through personal prayer and study I am finally there. 12 years ago I used to argue against this doctrine so much! I didn't want to believe the Father was a Savior! Because of what the pattern would imply.
Joseph Smith said, "What did Jesus say? (Mark it, Elder Rigdon!) The scriptures inform us that Jesus said, as the Father hath power in himself, even so hath the Son power--to do what? Why, what the Father did. The answer is obvious--in a manner to lay down his body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again."
Who lays down there body and takes it up again? Jesus laid down His body in a sense when He said, "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit." It is my opinion that a Savior lays down his body (for a sacrifice for sin) and takes it up again. If the pattern is correct and the Father was a Savior, and Christ is a Savior, then I believe that in another place that I will need to be a Savior to eventually become Perfect like the Father and to become Perfect like the Son was after He was resurrected. I believe this to be a path to godhood.
On another note.... I have not came across anything implying that women would have to be saviors. Does this mean the men get to feel what Christ did in Gethsemane and the women get to deal with child birth? Just curious.....
I love your entire post, and have come to the same conclusions. Regarding this underlined, I've had the same question. I wonder if our sacrifice will be to stand close by - helplessly (as His wife and mother did - and as our Heavenly Mother likely did), and watch as our husband or son goes through what the Savior did - I cannot fathom anything more painful....
~Jules
[Updated on: Mon, 12 August 2013 22:31] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Will there be other Saviors for other worlds? [message #2665 is a reply to message #2663] |
Mon, 12 August 2013 23:20 |
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Sheol27
Messages: 49
Registered: April 2013
Location: Wyoming
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JulesGP wrote on Mon, 12 August 2013 22:30Sheol27 wrote on Mon, 12 August 2013 22:04It has taken me some time to come to terms with the Father being a Savior before but I believe through personal prayer and study I am finally there. 12 years ago I used to argue against this doctrine so much! I didn't want to believe the Father was a Savior! Because of what the pattern would imply.
Joseph Smith said, "What did Jesus say? (Mark it, Elder Rigdon!) The scriptures inform us that Jesus said, as the Father hath power in himself, even so hath the Son power--to do what? Why, what the Father did. The answer is obvious--in a manner to lay down his body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again."
Who lays down there body and takes it up again? Jesus laid down His body in a sense when He said, "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit." It is my opinion that a Savior lays down his body (for a sacrifice for sin) and takes it up again. If the pattern is correct and the Father was a Savior, and Christ is a Savior, then I believe that in another place that I will need to be a Savior to eventually become Perfect like the Father and to become Perfect like the Son was after He was resurrected. I believe this to be a path to godhood.
On another note.... I have not came across anything implying that women would have to be saviors. Does this mean the men get to feel what Christ did in Gethsemane and the women get to deal with child birth? Just curious.....
I love your entire post, and have come to the same conclusions. Regarding this underlined, I've had the same question. I wonder if our sacrifice will be to stand close by - helplessly (as His wife and mother did - and as our Heavenly Mother likely did), and watch as our husband or son goes through what the Savior did - I cannot fathom anything more painful....
A little more about me. I was a very hyper child. Because of it I got beat a lot when I was really young. I was whipped 50 times in a row with a belt once, beat with a metal stove shovel on multiple occasions, had my hair pulled, had finger nails go into my arms to the point they bleed, I had a young men's president put my face to the asphalt and rub it in, etc. but nothing compares in my opinion to emotional pain or abuse. For one to feel alone and not loved, rejected by loved ones, I have never felt worse pain. These are mine and my experiences alone. I do not take away anything from anyone else's experiences.
I feel you. It would be horrific to watch a loved one who is so pure to endure what Jesus did. If that is how it plays out and the women are spared what Christ did but are there to watch, for me it is enough...... It was enough for us here in this world. Thanks for adding your perspective.
I have been blessed to see a small part of Gethsemane and I sometimes weep just thinking about it. I cannot believe the love that He had! Even in those moments of pain He still had love and didn't turn to anger. That is my witness. If I need to go through this to become like Christ and Father I will follow. Someone loved me enough to do it for me. Nothing has changed my life more than learning the love that Christ personally had for me. I feel healed of all the small abuses that I have endured in this life.
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| Re: Will there be other Saviors for other worlds? [message #2666 is a reply to message #2663] |
Mon, 12 August 2013 23:22 |
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Sheol27
Messages: 49
Registered: April 2013
Location: Wyoming
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JulesGP wrote on Mon, 12 August 2013 22:30Sheol27 wrote on Mon, 12 August 2013 22:04It has taken me some time to come to terms with the Father being a Savior before but I believe through personal prayer and study I am finally there. 12 years ago I used to argue against this doctrine so much! I didn't want to believe the Father was a Savior! Because of what the pattern would imply.
Joseph Smith said, "What did Jesus say? (Mark it, Elder Rigdon!) The scriptures inform us that Jesus said, as the Father hath power in himself, even so hath the Son power--to do what? Why, what the Father did. The answer is obvious--in a manner to lay down his body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again."
Who lays down there body and takes it up again? Jesus laid down His body in a sense when He said, "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit." It is my opinion that a Savior lays down his body (for a sacrifice for sin) and takes it up again. If the pattern is correct and the Father was a Savior, and Christ is a Savior, then I believe that in another place that I will need to be a Savior to eventually become Perfect like the Father and to become Perfect like the Son was after He was resurrected. I believe this to be a path to godhood.
On another note.... I have not came across anything implying that women would have to be saviors. Does this mean the men get to feel what Christ did in Gethsemane and the women get to deal with child birth? Just curious.....
I love your entire post, and have come to the same conclusions. Regarding this underlined, I've had the same question. I wonder if our sacrifice will be to stand close by - helplessly (as His wife and mother did - and as our Heavenly Mother likely did), and watch as our husband or son goes through what the Savior did - I cannot fathom anything more painful....
Another note, I believe what you said about the other heavenly beings being there. I have already prayed and had a witness that the Father personally attended Him there in the garden. Great thoughts, thanks!
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| Re: Will there be other Saviors for other worlds? [message #2668 is a reply to message #1006] |
Mon, 12 August 2013 23:55 |
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Elejian
Messages: 39
Registered: June 2013
Location: United States
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Sheol27 wrote on Mon, 12 August 2013 21:04Does this mean the men get to feel what Christ did in Gethsemane and the women get to deal with child birth?
We know that unpenitent people will suffer as Christ did. "But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I" (D&C 19:17).
"And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him" (Luke 22:43). Who could strengthen the Savior? To me, it would have to be someone at least His equal. This is just speculation and not doctrine, but who could strengthen him with love, tenderness, and compassion more than His Heavenly Mother?
To me, the idea of one Savior for all worlds raises interesting issues. Under this idea:
- Imagine a Gospel Essentials class on another planet a billion years ago: "Our Savior will be born on another planet in a billion years to atone for our sins and save us. You will have already been resurrected and exalted before this Savior will be. He has unlocked the door for resurrection for you, but He has not done so for Himself yet."
- On other creations before ours, Christ would no longer be considered the "firstfruits;" he would be the "lastfruits." "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming" (1 Corinthians 15:20-3).
- And on all the other planets, to appreciate the life of Christ and His Atonement more, wouldn't people need to learn at least a little bit about the history of Earth, its geography, and cultures at the time of Christ? This is not impossible through revelation, but to an investigator on another planet, it could seem more make-believe. Living on Earth, at least the general history, geography, and culture can be somewhat verifiable.
The Savior created the heavens and the earth and all things that in them are (3 Nephi 9:15). But in my opinion, anyone who becomes exalted can make the same claim, so to me, this doesn't rule out the possibility that there can be more than one Savior in the universe.
In my opinion, once people attain exaltation, all things are theirs. Exalted beings are at one with the Spirit of the Gods and have access to all the knowledge, sensations, feelings, experiences, and memories of the eternities. What one God has done, all Gods have done. What one God knows, all Gods know. The record, the knowledge, of what the Gods before us did fully becomes our own knowledge. The creations that happened eons in the past become our creations. We might not have personally, physically been there in our individual exalted state when those creations occurred, but we will have the full memory, knowledge, and power regarding all that happened at that time. When a sparrow falls, we know it. When a sparrow fell a billion years before we were born physically, we will know it. There will have been no beginning to our works. Similarly, there will be no end to our works. Despite our "checkered" past, when we have the fullness of the Spirit, we will be the "same God yesterday, today, and forever."
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| Re: Will there be other Saviors for other worlds? [message #2751 is a reply to message #2668] |
Sun, 22 September 2013 10:35 |
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JulesGP
Messages: 357
Registered: May 2012
Location: Davis County, UT
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Just came across this:
Quote:"President Young said There never was any world created & Peopled Nor ever would be but what would be redeemed by the shedding of the blood of the Savior of the world. If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people. I know why the Blood of Jesus was shed. I know why the blood of Joseph, & Hiram & others was shed and the blood of theirs will be shed. It is all to answer a purpose and has its Effect. Adam made this world and Suffered himself to take a body and subject himself to sin that Redemption & Exaltation might come to a man. Without descending below all things we Cannot ascend above all things. There never will be any Change in the gospel of Salvation, It is an Eternal gospel and the same in all worlds and always will be to the Endless age of eternity. There will never was a period but what worlds existed & never will be, they all have the same Gospel & Law of salvation." -Wilford Woodruff, Waiting For the World's End, The Dairies of Wilford Woodruff, Edited by Susan Staker, Pg.290
~Jules
[Updated on: Sun, 22 September 2013 10:36] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Will there be other Saviors for other worlds? [message #2854 is a reply to message #2751] |
Thu, 28 November 2013 00:19 |
leejae
Messages: 11
Registered: November 2013
Location: USA
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There must be opposition in all things: I believe the level of our post-mortal joy/glory must be balanced perfectly with the level of pain/suffering for the Lord we endured. Hence, I think the greatest reward of glory belongs to those who have suffered all and descended below all things.
I also don't think anyone becomes a God without having obtained a mortal body at some point. The Abraham scriptures about intelligences/souls/spirits organized before the world was suggest that the noble and great were Gods, by referring to them as souls (body and spirit), standing among those who were spirits, talking about GOING DOWN to prove that second group of spirits to see if they would obey in all things. The third group (not the fraction 1/3, but an uncounted third part or group of individuals), following Lucifer. I think the idea may be choosing to lay down the glorified body voluntarily to condescend to help "prove" those who had not yet attained godhood, as opposed to being separated by death involuntarily. See also the King Follett discourse? It is a fearful thing to think that all men(?) who desire to attain to that glory must walk the same path, but I think it's most consistent with scripture, and also the Lectures on Faith (also scripture, for that matter...).
I have wondered if the words "great and last sacrifice" speak to the fact that it was Jesus' great and last sacrifice on his own journey of progression...with him at last sitting down on his Father's throne to go no more out. Having purchased "his own" "body" and/or "family" with his blood. This particular, individual, Jesus Christ. Not only "a Christ," which I do currently believe to be a name/title/character in the eternal round of beings earning names and titles through a continual progression of lives and sacrifices. In the same way that the temple now and anciently is like a theatre round, with different players filling the same roles over and over, in sacred re-enactment of the eternities.
Another late-comer's two cents...
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| Re: Will there be other Saviors for other worlds? [message #3862 is a reply to message #3629] |
Wed, 17 June 2020 11:23 |
CoEternal
Messages: 3
Registered: June 2020
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Junior Member |
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"Joseph the Seer taught the following principle that the God & father of our Lord Jesus Christ was once the same as the Son or Holy Ghost but having redeemed a world became the eternal God of that world. He had a son Jesus Christ who redeemed this earth the same as his father had a world which made them equal & the Holy Ghost would do the same in his turn & so would all the Saints who inherited a Celestial glory so their would be Gods many & Lords many."[Wilford Woodruff, Jan. 30, 1842, "Book of Revelations," 3-4)]
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