Home » The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints » Current Church Doctrine » How can one be a slave to the Holy Ghost? Is that a bad thing?
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Sat, 10 August 2013 14:34   |
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Elejian
Messages: 39
Registered: June 2013
Location: United States
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One definition of slave is "a person who is excessively dependent upon or controlled by something." Using this definition (the word "excessively" is key), I agree with Dragon.
The Holy Ghost can show us all things what we should do (2 Nephi 32:3, 5). To me, the word "should" means that if there is a decision of moral or otherwise significant consequence to make, the Holy Ghost will guide us.
The Holy Ghost does not need to show us all things to do. Unless the salvation of someone's soul depends on it, we do not need to be shown the rate we need to blink our eyes or breathe. Do we need spiritual guidance on whether to brush our upper teeth first or our lower teeth first? Or every single time we walk, do we need to be shown where exactly to place each footstep, or the exact angle our arms should make relative to our body?
Does the Holy Ghost (or "Higher Self" for those who agree with Seeker's terminology) really need to tell us where to put our pen down, to the very millimeter, on the table?!
To me, there are at least 4 reasons why the sacrament prayer for the water does not have the word "always." This is 1 of them. We do not always need the Spirit guiding every microsecond of our lives.
Here's a non-LDS quote: "The overwhelming majority of facts, the sights and sounds that are around us every second and the relationships among them and everything in our memory--these have no Quality, in fact have a negative quality. If they were all present at once our consciousness would be so jammed with meaningless data we couldn't think or act. So we preselect on the basis of Quality . . . Quality preselects what data we're going to be conscious of, and it makes this selection in such a way as to best harmonize what we are with what we are becoming" (Robert Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry into Values, 280). Substitute the word "Quality" with "(the) Spirit" if necessary.
We fallible humans do need to be guided in all of the things that matter most.
But to wish to be guided in every single aspect of our lives could change us into letter-of-the-law automatons.
Regarding the "we are the Holy Ghost" idea:
My own opinion is that things are rarely "all or none." To me, things are a matter of degree.
We are gods (to some degree). We are also lower than the dust of the earth (to some degree).
The Light of Christ (Spirit of the Gods) is everywhere. But it's not everywhere in the same intensity or degree.
Somewhere in this forum someone has already reminded us of Marion G. Romney's talk about the (at least) 3 degrees of the Light of Christ.
The idea of something everywhere, but in varying degrees, helps me deal with the following statement by Brigham Young: "Orson Pratt . . . believes . . . that universal space is filled with, and that every particle of it is a Holy Spirit, and that spirit is all powerful and all wise, full of intelligence and possessing all the attributes of all the Gods in eternity. . . . that theory, though apparently very plausible and beautiful, is not true . . . Brother Hyde was upon this same theory once, and in conversation with brother Joseph Smith advanced the idea that eternity or boundless space was filled with the Spirit of God, or the Holy Ghost. After portraying his views upon that theory very carefully and minutely, he asked brother Joseph what he thought of it? He replied that it appeared very beautiful, and that he did not know of but one serious objection to it. Says Brother Hyde, 'What is that?' Joseph replied, 'it is not true'" (Journal of Discourses 4:267, red added).
I don't think he disagrees that the Light of Christ is everywhere (even if close to zero, like in outer darkness), but that he disagrees that the spiritual level of the Holy Ghost is everywhere.
Let's say I use a scale from almost 0% to above 100%. To use some arbitrary numbers:
So let's pretend the "average" person who has the light that enlighteneth everyone is a god-10%. (And therefore is 90% less than the dust of the earth.)
When you receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, you become a god-20%. (And I should say their maximum capacity is 20%; they may not always function at a level of 20%, since a person could choose to live by a lower level of light and truth. In this way, a righteous non-LDS functioning at 10% is more righteous than an LDS functioning at 5%.)
When you receive the more sure word of prophecy, you become a god-30%.
When you are exalted (truly receiving the fulness of the Holy Ghost), you become a god-100%.
Seeker wrote on Sun, 10 March 2013 21:24So, we know that A)we can become Gods as spirits and that B)we progressed as far as we could in the spirit world without a body.
A + B = C)We were Gods before we were born as mortals with bodies.
I'm trying to understand premise B in the above syllogism.
What scriptures or quotes support premise B?
Abraham 3 could imply that some were more valiant than others in the premortal existence. That could mean that some (Cain, for example), did not progress as far as they could have.
I don't mind if we say we were holy spirits to some degree, but not to the full extent in the premortal existence. We are children of God, but D&C 93:38 could imply we made mistakes there, and only the Firstborn was 100% holy. "Ye are gods," but in my opinion, not to the fullest extent possible, yet.
In my opinion, I don't think we were 100% Gods and had the true fulness of the Holy Ghost premortally. For one thing, that could mean that it is possible to permanently fall from Godhood (after the Final Judgment).
[Updated on: Sat, 10 August 2013 20:05] Report message to a moderator |
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How can one be a slave to the Holy Ghost? Is that a bad thing?
By: Dragon on Thu, 31 January 2013 09:46 |
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Re: How can one be a slave to the Holy Ghost? Is that a bad thing?
By: Daryl on Fri, 01 February 2013 05:15 |
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Re: How can one be a slave to the Holy Ghost? Is that a bad thing?
By: Ashleyd on Sun, 03 February 2013 01:32 |
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Re: How can one be a slave to the Holy Ghost? Is that a bad thing?
By: JulesGP on Sun, 03 February 2013 02:38 |
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Re: How can one be a slave to the Holy Ghost? Is that a bad thing?
By: JulesGP on Tue, 05 February 2013 13:00 |
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Re: How can one be a slave to the Holy Ghost? Is that a bad thing?
By: Dragon on Wed, 06 February 2013 07:51 |
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Re: How can one be a slave to the Holy Ghost? Is that a bad thing?
By: Ashleyd on Wed, 06 February 2013 14:05 |
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Re: How can one be a slave to the Holy Ghost? Is that a bad thing?
By: Dragon on Wed, 06 February 2013 21:55 |
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Re: How can one be a slave to the Holy Ghost? Is that a bad thing?
By: JulesGP on Sat, 09 February 2013 16:10 |
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Re: How can one be a slave to the Holy Ghost? Is that a bad thing?
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Re: How can one be a slave to the Holy Ghost? Is that a bad thing?
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Re: How can one be a slave to the Holy Ghost? Is that a bad thing?
By: Seeker on Sun, 10 March 2013 22:24 |
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Re: How can one be a slave to the Holy Ghost? Is that a bad thing?
By: JulesGP on Sun, 10 March 2013 23:44 |
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Re: How can one be a slave to the Holy Ghost? Is that a bad thing?
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Re: How can one be a slave to the Holy Ghost? Is that a bad thing?
By: Seeker on Tue, 12 March 2013 16:32 |
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Re: How can one be a slave to the Holy Ghost? Is that a bad thing?
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Re: How can one be a slave to the Holy Ghost? Is that a bad thing?
By: Seeker on Tue, 12 March 2013 23:19 |
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Re: How can one be a slave to the Holy Ghost? Is that a bad thing?
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Re: How can one be a slave to the Holy Ghost? Is that a bad thing?
By: Dragon on Sat, 23 March 2013 22:03 |
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Re: How can one be a slave to the Holy Ghost? Is that a bad thing?
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Re: How can one be a slave to the Holy Ghost? Is that a bad thing?
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Re: How can one be a slave to the Holy Ghost? Is that a bad thing?
By: Elejian on Sat, 10 August 2013 14:34 |
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Re: How can one be a slave to the Holy Ghost? Is that a bad thing?
By: Elejian on Mon, 26 August 2013 21:50 |
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