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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost [message #2567 is a reply to message #2563] |
Wed, 12 June 2013 23:09 |
Contemplator
Messages: 12 Registered: January 2013
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Junior Member |
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Red Mint,
Wow, I am impressed with your desire to seek and ponder. Thank you for your kind words and for sharing your thoughts and reactions.
Your experiment where you asked people to define the gospel and the fulness of the gospel is quite interesting. I have heard similar conversations and ideas. I posted a few thoughts about the fulness of the gospel in the book discussion section of this forum. I quite enjoyed the Elliason book, as well. Here is what I posted as a comment on the chapter about the fulness of the gospel:
Quote:
This is a wonderful chapter about the Gospel of Jesus Christ. As was discussed in the chapter, the scriptures consistently define the Gospel of Jesus Christ as:
1. Repentance
2. Baptism
3. Receive the Holy Ghost
And, faith is often described in connection with the Gospel of Jesus Christ as well. But, the chapter makes the jump to a conclusion that the fulness of the gospel is also these three things because of the role of the Holy Ghost.
I would like to pose a question. Is there more to the fulness of the gospel? It seems that there are other scriptures that define the Fulness of the Gospel. For example, the chapter quotes D&C 39:6 as part of establishing just what the Gospel of Jesus Christ includes -
Quote:
6 And this is my gospel--repentance and baptism by water, and then cometh the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter, which showeth all things, and teacheth the peaceable things of the kingdom.
The chapter does not quote D&C 39:11 -
Quote:
11 And if thou do this, I have prepared thee for a greater work. Thou shalt preach the fulness of my gospel, which I have sent forth in these last days, the covenant which I have sent forth to recover my people, which are of the house of Israel.
This verse establishes that, having received the gospel, James Covill is ready for a greater work, teaching the fulness of the gospel. The fulness of the gospel is then defined as the covenant which the Lord has sent forth to recover His people of the house of Israel. This same definition is supported in D&C 66:2 and D&C 133:57 where the fulness of the gospel is equated with the everlasting covenant.
I agree that we will understand what is included in the fulness of the gospel by studying the Savior's ministry in the Book of Mormon. The following is a brief outline of the series of events and teaching during this visit of the Savior:
- Jesus defines His doctrine, given to Him by His Father. It is, in essence, to believe, repent, be baptized and receive the record of the Father through the Holy Ghost. (See 3 Nephi 11:32-39, also note that this topic is elaborated upon in 2 Nephi 31-32.)
- We are commanded to accept and follow this doctrine as we become as a little child (See 3 Nephi 11:37-38)
- Chapter 12-14 contain important teachings that are not the focus of this discussion.
- Chapters 15 and 16 contain teachings about "other sheep." The decedents of Lehi find that they are the "other sheep" Jesus spoke of to his disciples in Jerusalem. But, those disciples never learned of Lehi's family because they never asked after Jesus told them about the other sheep. So, the Father told Jesus to say no more (3 Nephi 15:17-21). Next, Jesus explained that he had yet other sheep (3 Nephi 16:1-3). Now, those who were listening had just been told that the disciples in Jerusalem never learned about the other sheep because they did not ask. Then after explaining this, Jesus said there are yet other sheep (hint, hint, hint) and by the end of chapter 16 nobody asked about them. So, Jesus said, "I perceive that ye are weak, that ye cannot understand all my words ..." (3 Nephi 17:2). He taught them to ask, seek and knock. He told them about how the disciples at Jerusalem didn't learn because they didn't ask. Then he gave them something to ask about, and they didn't ask. It seems that the people were not ready to learn about Jesus' sheep (the family of Israel).
- Jesus does not just leave in disappointment. Rather, He was filled with compassion and healed all of the sick or afflicted among them (3 Nephi 17:6-9). Then he asked for all their little children to be brought and he stood in their midst and prayed for all the people using words that cannot be written. Imagine the joy of this experience! These people witnessed the miracles that Jesus performed in mortality, and more.
- In Chapter 18 Jesus institutes the sacrament, commands the people to pray, to be a light to the world, and to teach others of Jesus Christ. He gave the disciples the power to give the Holy Ghost. and then ascended into Heaven. These things He did to prepare the people for what would happen the next day, and beyond.
- Those who were there the first day went home to gather everyone else to the temple for the return of Jesus the next day. In the morning the disciples taught what Jesus had taught the day before. Then all were baptized and received the Holy Ghost. Thus prepared, Jesus returned and stood in their midst. Everyone kneeled down and prayed. Jesus moved off a little way and prayed thanking the Father for giving these people, whom He had chosen, the Holy Ghost (3 Nephi 19:20). Then, returning He finds that they are praying as directed by the Spirit and they are coming to have the same countenance as Jesus. He went a little way off again and thanked the Father for purifying these people (3 Nephi 19:28). Finally, he prays to the Father that these may all be one with Him and the Father. After observing them again, He prays using words that cannot be recorded.
- In 3 Nephi 20:10 he says that people are ready and he will finish the commandment of the Father that he could not complete back in chapter 17 when He saw that the people were not ready. We can learn great lessons from this sequence. The things that happen in chapters 17, 18 and 19 are hints at the things that need to happen in our own lives for us to be ready to be taught about the covenant of the Father with Israel. That is the topic of chapters 20-26 which cover the rest of Jesus' teachings during this visit. And, the result of this sequence is the establishment of a Zion-like people.
It would seem, then, that the fulness of the gospel is, as defined in the D&C and as delivered by the Savior as recorded in the Book of Mormon is the gospel of Jesus Christ PLUS the covenant to recover His people. In other words, could it be that the fulness of the gospel is more than just individual salvation through repentance baptism and the Holy Ghost, but it also includes the gathering of God's people by those who have received the gospel?
What do you think?
You have clearly given this topic some serious thought. Would you be willing to share what you have learned?
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Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: JulesGP on Sat, 11 August 2012 23:52
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: zephyr on Sun, 12 August 2012 17:23
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: Dragon on Wed, 15 August 2012 07:11
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: MES5464 on Sun, 26 August 2012 12:05
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: zephyr on Sun, 26 August 2012 16:03
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: Dragon on Sun, 26 August 2012 19:59
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: Dragon on Sun, 26 August 2012 23:39
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: JulesGP on Wed, 29 August 2012 21:45
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: Dragon on Thu, 30 August 2012 18:38
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: KH on Sun, 07 October 2012 00:47
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: Dragon on Mon, 15 October 2012 09:06
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: FreddyV on Thu, 06 December 2012 20:17
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: FreddyV on Thu, 24 January 2013 06:50
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: FreddyV on Thu, 24 January 2013 17:47
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: JulesGP on Mon, 04 February 2013 12:13
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: FreddyV on Thu, 24 January 2013 19:12
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: Dragon on Fri, 25 January 2013 11:21
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: Denryu on Fri, 25 January 2013 14:03
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: Seeker on Wed, 07 August 2013 12:09
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: FreddyV on Wed, 06 February 2013 15:50
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: bishop on Tue, 21 May 2013 19:26
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: JulesGP on Tue, 21 May 2013 21:51
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: RedMint on Wed, 05 June 2013 13:47
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: RedMint on Tue, 11 June 2013 10:11
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: zone on Thu, 27 June 2013 13:43
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: Seeker on Wed, 07 August 2013 14:07
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: Elejian on Tue, 18 June 2013 14:27
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: zone on Thu, 27 June 2013 13:37
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: Elejian on Thu, 27 June 2013 23:44
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: RedMint on Thu, 11 July 2013 18:36
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: Elejian on Fri, 12 July 2013 09:04
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: RedMint on Fri, 12 July 2013 12:42
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: RedMint on Sat, 27 July 2013 06:50
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: Sheol27 on Sun, 28 July 2013 11:51
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: Elejian on Sun, 11 August 2013 00:48
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: RedMint on Sun, 11 August 2013 16:18
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: Elejian on Sun, 11 August 2013 18:31
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: JulesGP on Sun, 11 August 2013 23:33
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: Sheol27 on Mon, 12 August 2013 12:14
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: JulesGP on Tue, 13 August 2013 08:45
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: kenh on Fri, 16 August 2013 23:58
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: Elejian on Sat, 17 August 2013 17:37
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: kenh on Mon, 19 August 2013 12:01
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: Elejian on Tue, 20 August 2013 23:08
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: Sheol27 on Wed, 21 August 2013 13:30
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: zone on Thu, 22 August 2013 11:00
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: Elejian on Sat, 24 August 2013 23:05
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
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Re: Identity of the Holy Ghost
By: john144 on Fri, 26 June 2020 19:51
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