Home » The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints » LDS Deep Doctrine » Mode and Method - 144,000 Gathering the Wheat (Separating the Wheat from the Tares in the church...)
| Mode and Method - 144,000 Gathering the Wheat [message #2256] |
Fri, 01 March 2013 08:13  |
Amonhi
Messages: 237
Registered: June 2010
Location: Las Vegas, NV.
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Senior Member |
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Someone gave me some feed back via PM. I wanted to respond publicly as I believe it would be helpful to others. Answering some questions about why I do what I do. Challenging Current Church Doctrine and pointing our when Prophets contradict each other and the scriptures, etc...
I think that it would be helpful for everyone to know my thoughts on some of these matters. I have changed the name to protect the identity of this person.
"Rumplestiltskin"I'm sure you are completely familiar with statements on deception, light angels and so forth so I'll save us both the trouble, but if you are legit or not I think I could offer small advice;
...
I think the Romney talk is the starter, unabridged. I think you should lead with that. Not that you're not a great guy but when I read your words I don't get the feeling when I read a prophets words. Now please don't take that as an insult, but teaching the gospel in our own words as you started here is a sketchy business. I'm grateful for manuals and discussion pamphlets cause often times us poor creatures go straight face down out of the gate.  I like the manuals for most people.
I understand where you are coming from. However, I know the gospel well enough and recognize the promptings of the Holy Ghost clearly enough that for me, it is not sketchy business. I rely on this promise:
Quote: D&C 11:21 - Seek not to declare my word, but first seek to obtain my word, and then shall your tongue be loosed; then, if you desire, you shall have my Spirit and my word, yea, the power of God unto the convincing of men.
Also, your goals are different from mine...
I don't want everyone. If everyone agreed with me, then I would be doing something wrong. I want people to either strongly agree or strongly disagree.
The wheat and the tares are all growing up in the church together. They both recognize the prophets and the manuals. They both are active in the church. And from outward appearance, the wheat and the tares look the same and do the same things. But there comes a time when the two plants must mature and show themselves as wheat or tares. We cannot be both. Being harvested as wheat is to receive your C&E.
Consider the parable of the ten virgins.
Quote: 1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their clamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Matt. 25:1-12
The symbols are perfect. We often talk about the oil and how it is that we are to fill our oil lamps. We discuss what the oil is and hear the common seminary answers. Pray, read your scriptures, follow the prophets, pay tithing. But these things do the tares also.
We cannot understand what the oil really is until we understand the purpose of the lamps and why they are used at mid-night. You SEE, we each have a lamp. It is our ability to LIGHT our OWN way. Those who have no oil have no light to guide them, so they rely on the light of others. They rely on the prophets and manuals. They cannot get their own revelation and direction from the Lord, so they follow one of their poor fellows.
The ten virgins with oil in their lamps are prophets and follow the spirit and are able to pierce the veil of darkness and commune with the Lord through the veil. Having communed with the Lord through they veil, they then desire to enter into His presence and He, having known them from previous conversation, let's them come in.
If people are going to get and receive their C&E by revelation from God, they need to stop trusting in the arm of flesh and in the arm of the church to be infallible and perfect. They need to learn to rely on the Spirit and God directly. They need to be able to light their own way.
I know that most of the people on this forum recognize the Prophet and church manuals as being "Current Church Doctrine". And most church members will blindly follow or believe or agree with whatever the current church doctrine is, (even when it contradicts itself). They don't have enough light in and of themselves, so they rely on the light of the Church or of prophets or of manuals. Unfortunately, this will not get them to receive their C&E. It is not enough to be received by the Bride Groom.
At some point, they have to let go of the what they feel is the safety net of Prophets and manuals and go to God directly. Rather than using the Prophets and Manuals thereby supporting the Current Church Doctrine, I use the scriptures and my personal inspiration.
It is not enough to know about God from manuals and prophets. We have to KNOW God by revelation and experience. We cannot rely on men, myself included, to tell us who God is. We MUST come to know God for ourselves.
Speaking in my own words is an incredible tool because I am not speaking to those who recognize Church Authorities, I am speaking to those who recognize the spirit of God. If they can hear the spirit of God through my weak words and testimony, then they are learning all things by the spirit that is supposed to teach us all things. And they are ready to receive it directly from God.
The reason is that I am the weak thing of the earth. If I speak my own words, as inspired by the spirit, and I am challenging the establish beliefs of "Current Church Doctrine" then those who rely on the words of men and accept only what they are told by the church will not listen to my words. But those who are Seekers of Truth, by the spirit of truth will plant the seed of my words and know by the fruits and the spirit that what I am saying is true. And, there are about 12 or more people on this forum who have planted the seed and received their C&E just as I promised. Some of them have publicly acknowledged and born witness to the fact that my words are true. What greater witness can you have than this?
Now, I didn't give them their C&E. They claimed it themselves. I was only the missionary who taught them the everlasting gospel. I am just another sign post, like all the rest. I don't want followers. I am not starting a new religion. (Heavens knows there are religions enough.) I don't want praise, (tares who agree with me because I preach what has already been preached and which is familiar), I want results, (wheat who are harvested and receive their C&E).
In short I am called to those who are prepared and I cannot find them and they cannot find me if I quote the manuals and prophets and sounded like everyone else.
Quote:Further, I don't know why you do that GA contradiction thing, it adds nothing to the overall goal and casts doubt on your intentions.
There are so many people who do not realize that leaders in the church, prophets/presidents included contradict each other and even scriptures. (I hear it every GC.) The point I am making is essential, "You cannot rely on borrowed light." "Do not blindly follow." All men, myself included, teach the philosophies of men mingled with scripture. We tend to think that scripture is determined by what is written in the accepted Cannon. Then we are taught that GC is scripture, and the ensign and the books written by the prophets, and devotionals, etc. But scripture is NOT determined by whether or not it is written in the Cannon or who said it or where they said it. Scripture is ANYTHING that the Holy Ghost ratifies to your soul as truth.
Every verse of the Bible, Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price and D&C must be ratified by the spirit before it is scripture and binding on us before God. Every concept spoken over the pulpit in GC, or preached in Gospel Doctrine or Priesthood and Relief Society is considered the philosophies of men until the spirit ratifies it to our souls as scripture.
The spirit will not ratify it until we understand it correctly/truly. If a teaching or doctrine is NOT ratified, then we do not understand it correctly or it is not true. When we understand something correctly and if it is true, then the HG will immediately confirm it. It doesn't matter where it comes from, if the spirit ratifies it, then it is scripture to you.
Quote:I'm sure you know false Cotfb movements that have come and mostly gone in that past, and we have institutional memory of such things. It's a huge red flag. If you hadn't done the technical work on this topic then I would have cast you aside immediately. I imagine others do the same thing.
I know. Everything we are told is to stay away from the crazies, like me. False prophets can, have and do arise. We are not so unlike the ancients who had to learn to recognize true prophets from false ones. It seems so easy to just say, "the President of the Church is a true Prophet and anyone outside the church is false."
The church must do what it does to incubate the wheat and the tares. It is an incubator. It prepares the delicate young grass, (wheat and tares alike), providing the nourishment and opportunity for both to grow into mature plants. It incubates by providing an environment where both can grow and develop. BUT IT does not have the ability to separate them. IF the church tried to separate the wheat from the tares, how would it do it without destroying the incubation chambers? How could the church divide the wheat from the tares without falling into apostasy to see who fell with it so it could call them tares? The tares will go where the church points it. That is why they are tares. They look like wheat, they act like wheat but they are not endowed with the spirit and light by themselves, so they go where and do what they are told. The only way for the church to separate the wheat from the tares is for it to go into apostasy and lead the people astray. The result would be that the tares would follow it into apostasy and the wheat would leave it knowing that the church was no longer true, but still not have yet been harvested by receiving their C&E and becoming members of the Church of the Firstborn.
The LDS Church has been preparing and incubating the wheat and the tares for 200+ years. I suggest that we have been preparing long enough. I and others are come to the harvest.
Hear all ye Wheat, The Harvest is upon you, come ye and be gathered in!
Quote:TBH I still have major concerns with you over this but decided to address it rather than beat around the bush; and of course we disagree on a handful of other doctrines, but that's much less important. Good. Lol, I don't want you to believe anything I say unless the spirit teaches you personally that it is true. The Spirit is the ONLY thing that God has told us, "Will teach us all things and show us all things what we should do." Not me, not the prophet or the manuals, or the scriptures, but the Spirit. It is our light and our guide. God has not authorized anyone else to "tell us all things".
In addition, you don't have to believe everything I do to receive your C&E. You don't have to believe in priesthood outside the church or that I am a missionary for the CoFB, or other such proclamations and doctrines that I do. You do have to go to God directly, pierce the veil and commune with the Lord. You have to get to know him first and then ask to enter his presence. This process is essential to exaltation, CK and all the blessings that we seek with it. Members of the LDS Church alone will not make it to the CK. You must be a member of the CoFB to be resurrected with the just in the first resurrection and to enter into your exaltation. D&C 76:50-70 is very clear of that. (When you read it, it isn't saying who will be in the CK, it is telling us who will be resurrected with the just.) The resurrection of the unjust at the end of the millennium will be for those who do not have their C&E. They will miss out on the entire Millennium, the eternal exaltation, and all the blessings listed in those verses. We all must be sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise PRIOR TO being resurrected with the just, PRIOR TO entering the CK and presence of God, or we will not.
Quote:I've always found if I start right from the scriptures and let people read for themselves there is little opposition to the topic, but if I do it in my words it doesn't go so well (for these kinds of topics). I know, again wheat and tares.
Thank you for your honest feedback. I appreciate it, and hope that this response gives light to some of my posts.
Peace and friendship,
Amonhi
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