Home » Calling and Election Made Sure » How You Received Your Calling and Election Made Sure » When did Joseph Smith receive his C&E? (Discussion)
| When did Joseph Smith receive his C&E? [message #1834] |
Thu, 03 January 2013 12:07  |
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JulesGP
Messages: 357
Registered: May 2012
Location: Davis County, UT
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I have seen several different accounts between church history and the D&C where it sounds like the point Joseph Smith may have received his C&E, and there has been some discussion about it HERE.
The most common theory I'm seeing on this board is that he received it in D&C 132. I have read this one of the several accounts of the First Vision that Joseph Smith wrote, and I am wondering if he actually received it here:
Quote:In 1820:
"The Lord heard me cry in the wilderness and while in the attitude of calling upon the Lord in the 16th year of my age a pillar of light above the brightness of the sun at noon day come down from above and rested upon me. I was filled with the spirit of God and the Lord opened the heavens upon me and I saw the Lord.
He spake unto me saying, Joseph my son thy sins are forgiven thee. Go thy way, walk in my statutes and keep my commandments. Behold I am the Lord of Glory. I was crucifyed for the world that all those who believe on my name may have Eternal life. Behold the world lieth in sin at this time and none doeth good, no not one. They have turned aside from the gospel and keep not my commandments. They draw near to me with their lips while their hearts are far from me and mine anger is kindling against the inhabitants of earth to visit them according to their ungodliness and to bring to pass that which hath been spoken by the mouth of the prophets and Apostles. Behold and lo, I come quickly as it is written of me, in the cloud clothed in the glory of my Father."
This is similar to what Enos was told:
Quote: 5 And there came a voice unto me, saying: Enos, thy sins are forgiven thee, and thou shalt be blessed.
6 And I, Enos, knew that God could not lie; wherefore, my guilt was swept away.
7 And I said: Lord, how is it done?
8 And he said unto me: Because of thy faith in Christ, whom thou hast never before heard nor seen. And many years pass away before he shall manifest himself in the flesh; wherefore, go to, thy faith hath made thee whole.
I realize that forgiveness of one's sins in itself does not necessarily equate to C&E. However, it seems that the LORD does not just willy nilly - come and tell people their sins have been forgiven. It seems that when He comes to someone and delivers that message, it is associated with greater things - like becoming "blessed" as Enos was. We know the character of JS, and that from then on, his life was devoted to the Lord. And the fact that the Father and the Son came to him in vision this way and revealed that knowledge to JS, seems to imply "greater things" as I said above, and mean more than just saying the few sins of a good young man are forgiven.
A year later, Joseph Smith had another vision, in which he was reminded of the same thing the Father and the Son told him:
Quote:"And it came to pass when I was seventeen years of age, I called again upon the Lord and he shewed unto me a heavenly vision. For behold an angel of the Lord came and stood before me. It was by night and he called me by name and he said the Lord had forgiven me my sins. He revealed unto me that in the Town of Manchester, Ontario County, New York, there was plates of gold upon which there was engravings which was engraven by Maroni and his fathers, the servants of the living God in Ancient days, deposited by the commandments of God and kept by the power thereof and that I should go and get them. He revealed unto me many things concerning the inhabitants of the earth which since have been revealed in commandments and revelations."
So it seems that he was being given his "Calling" here by this angel, after being reminded that He was favored of the Lord and had experienced the mighty change, and baptism by fire and the Holy Ghost.
What say ye?
~Jules
[Updated on: Thu, 03 January 2013 12:08] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: When did Joseph Smith receive his C&E? [message #1836 is a reply to message #1834] |
Thu, 03 January 2013 15:04  |
FreddyV
Messages: 50
Registered: December 2012
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This is powerful. I was unaware of these accounts, where do they come from? I think you are right. My experience with my C&E took several times before I finally understood what was offered me. I heard the Lord speak to me while I prayed. I heard Him tell me that He had sealed me up to eternal life. However, I think it took at least three times, and also writing it down immediately after the last one, until I fully began to comprehend what I was given.
Maybe this is the same way for Joseph Smith? He heard the message more than once, and then received the same message in the revelation contained within D&C 132. Or, it could be that Joseph heard the same message several times, and one of them was commanded to be written in the D&C. In any case, I am VERY grateful you shared these experiences from Joseph Smith. It gives me something over which to pray and to ponder. I also feel inspired to go and search some of the volumes of the Joseph Smith Papers that I received as Christmas gifts. I've already found great things, and I am eager to find more. Years ago I might have thought, books for Christmas, hmmm... ok. Now I'm like, WOW, books for Christmas that contain source material written about and by the prophet of this dispensation.
Thanks Jules! I think the quote from Enos is the key there. It sounds very similar and rings true to me.
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| Re: When did Joseph Smith receive his C&E? [message #1838 is a reply to message #1836] |
Thu, 03 January 2013 15:57 |
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JulesGP
Messages: 357
Registered: May 2012
Location: Davis County, UT
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Freddy you can find the multiple accounts all over the internet (some LDS-friendly, some anti-Mormon sites), but one source is: (Backman, Milton V. Joseph Smith's First Vision. Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1980, 2nd Edition, p. 157).
I had a similar experience - as I was told the same thing Enos was told about two years before I accepted my C&E - which occurred after multiple "promptings". I did not comprehend those messages either until I had received MULTIPLE witnesses, was led to things I studied, had a teacher who had already trod that path, and had many more witnesses. I imagine JS didn't know what was going on at first either - as we all have to develop an understanding line upon line...
Also, I can't find the thread right now where I posted about it, but I understood the part of D&C 132 (that is often used on this forum in reference to JS receiving his C&E) and had a witness by the spirit, to mean that he had received the same blessings that Abraham received when he was made a GOD over Isrial - that JS was sealed up unto GODHOOD in 132, not just that he had received his C&E. This is how I see it broken down:
Quote: 51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to prove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.
JS and Emma were given a trial as Abraham's - NOT to test their obedience, but AS ABRAHAM was being tested, to test them for GODHOOD. As He did for Abraham when He sent the angel to stop him from slaying Isaac -- an exit was provided.
Quote:52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, receive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.
53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been faithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.
This implies godhood as well. I have received my C&E, but I have not yet progressed to the point where I have been made a "ruler" over things.
Quote:54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and cleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.
55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an hundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of eternal lives in the eternal worlds.
This also seems to imply godhood, and being given NOW, things that are not immediately bestowed on someone when they receive their C&E.
Quote:56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid forgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to rejoice.
57 And again, I say, let not my servant Joseph put his property out of his hands, lest an enemy come and destroy him; for Satan seeketh to destroy; for I am the Lord thy God, and he is my servant; and behold, and lo, I am with him, as I was with Abraham, thy father, even unto his exaltation and glory.
Again, the Lord refers to Abraham - one who was made a god, and whose initial "test" for godhood we can read about. The Lord doesn't just refer to the multitudes of others who have received their C&E - like those who were gathered together at Kirtland and received their C&E as a group:
Quote:1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you who have assembled yourselves together to receive his will concerning you:
2 Behold, this is pleasing unto your Lord, and the angels rejoice over you; the balms of your prayers have come up into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth, and are recorded in the book of the names of the sanctified, even them of the celestial world.
3 Wherefore, I now send upon you another Comforter, even upon you my friends, that it may abide in your hearts, even the Holy Spirit of promise; which other Comforter is the same that I promised unto my disciples, as is recorded in the testimony of John.
4 This Comforter is the promise which I give unto you of eternal life, even the glory of the celestial kingdom;
5 Which glory is that of the church of the Firstborn, even of God, the holiest of all, through Jesus Christ his Son-- (D&C 88:1-5)
The revelation that that group had received their C&E was given to Joseph Smith on 27 December, 1832. Although much of the information in D&C 132 was already known by JS as early as 1831, it was recorded on recorded 12 July, 1843. Surely JS would have received his C&E LONG before that entire group of people in Kirtland. If we go by the earliest date JS might have had the information in D&C 132, we could argue that maybe he received his C&E in 1831 - one year prior to all those saints, and recorded it in D&C 132. But it just doesn't compute to me - given his vast understanding of the Gospel and his mission at that point in time, along with the other things I've cited.
I feel that he did receive his C&E very early and that the First Vision was a personal vision and revelation TO HIM - though the LDS Church has chosen one of the accounts of this vision that seems to apply to the church as a whole - and used that in their canonized works. I don't believe that the First Vision was given as a message for the future church as a whole (though there are many things applicable to us as a whole), but I believe it was given to JS as an individual - as our C&E's are.
I wonder sometimes if assuming that JS received his C&E in 132 is a misunderstanding based on the BRM header in that chapter of the D&C, and if it is one reason LDS think they cannot attain their C&E - because they look at all JS went through and see what it says in 132 - and understand THAT to be the point he received his C&E, and think they have to BE a JS (a Noble and Great One) too in order to attain it, when my understanding is as I said, that JS attained GODHOOD in 132 - after going through all he did, and that he had received his C&E MUCH earlier in life.
~Jules
[Updated on: Thu, 03 January 2013 16:42] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: When did Joseph Smith receive his C&E? [message #1850 is a reply to message #1834] |
Fri, 04 January 2013 11:57 |
bishop
Messages: 144
Registered: July 2010
Location: USA
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I have a little different take on some of the ideas posted above. The heading of Section 132 states that many of the revelations that he wrote in this section were received in 1831, not 1843 when he wrote it down. I always took that to mean that Joseph Smith received his C&E in 1831.
To be forgiven of one's sins is not to receive C&E. Each time we are filled with the Spirit, we must be cleansed for it to dwell with us. When a person is healed under the direction of the Spirit, they are cleansed. Remember how the Savior asked, "Is it easier to say, thy sins are forgiven thee, or be thou healed?" Being forgiven of one's sins is a first step in spirituality, albeit a very important step. It can mean that someone is born again. I believe that Mormon wrote Enos' experience in such a way as to allow the beginner to believe it was about prayer, and yet allow the C&Eer to realize that it was about C&E. To say, "Thy sins are forgiven and thou shalt be blessed" is not the same as to be told, "thou shalt have eternal life." Only by the Spirit can we discern that Enos received his C&E as a result of his wrestling before the Lord.
Alma received a similar blessing from the angel.
15 Blessed art thou, Alma; therefore, lift up thy head and rejoice, for thou hast great cause to rejoice; for thou hast been faithful in keeping the commandments of God from the time which thou receivedst thy first message from him. Behold, I am he that delivered it unto you.
I believe this is when he received his C&E, but it can only counted as conjecture since he was not promised exaltation.
So anyway this is my take on Joseph Smith and Enos receiving their C&E.
Bishop
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| Re: When did Joseph Smith receive his C&E? [message #1901 is a reply to message #1900] |
Thu, 10 January 2013 15:03 |
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Denryu
Messages: 88
Registered: July 2012
Location: American Fork
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As someone who doesn't know for sure, I'm still willing to share my opinion and see how it contrasts with those who know more.
I believe tha call can be extended many times, but you can only be chosen, or elected, once.
Once you have been elected, you have the blessings of the celestial kingdom sealed upon you, and I believe the only way you can lose it at that point is to reject it by choice, or by the shedding of innocent blood.
As far as sins committed after C&E, I have heard others say that you must suffer for those sins after death. I don't know if that is correct or not.
I also believe that you can receive later confirmations of your C&E being made sure, but again, don't know for sure.
Kevin
Libertas optimas rarem, nunquam servili sub nexu.
"There is no gift like Liberty, therefore never live under slavery."
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| Re: When did Joseph Smith receive his C&E? [message #1903 is a reply to message #1900] |
Thu, 10 January 2013 16:23 |
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JulesGP
Messages: 357
Registered: May 2012
Location: Davis County, UT
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Senior Member |
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rdwhitaker wrote on Thu, 10 January 2013 14:16Is Calling and Election a one time occurrence? or can it be multiple messages?
When people ask in church who in the congregation are converts, I always raise my hand. I have been converted to the truthfulness of the Church and to the Gospel of Jesus Christ many times!
So, if someone has received a definite communication that their Calling and Election is made sure, and if they later sin, is is possible for them to repent, be forgiven, and obtain a re-confirmation of that status?
I realize this is where D&C 132 comes into play. Maybe that is the answer.
Ryan
Ryan,
My understanding of this topic has increased a lot since I first posted this thread here: http://www.elliaison.org/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=198&start=0&rid=35&S=ab57728406aa376366d2f9ec78d4b600 , but it might be a start in answer to your questions. 
~Jules
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| Re: When did Joseph Smith receive his C&E? [message #2158 is a reply to message #2157] |
Fri, 01 February 2013 16:26 |
FreddyV
Messages: 50
Registered: December 2012
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That is an amazing account. I haven't ever read that one before. I especially liked looking at his handwriting, somehow it seemed so personal. Though I must admit, I needed the translation to help me get through it all.
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