Home » The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints » News, Politics and Events » Gay Marriage - Proposition 8 - Supreme Court Rulling (What the heck!)
| Gay Marriage - Proposition 8 - Supreme Court Rulling [message #2587] |
Sat, 29 June 2013 16:48  |
Amonhi
Messages: 237
Registered: June 2010
Location: Las Vegas, NV.
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Senior Member |
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Ok, I had to voice my thoughts on this somewhere!!!
Some time ago, the Church joined with other churches to push proposition 8. I find significant fault with the way the church pushed members to support the Proposition 8 vote to include donations of time and money. I have no issue with people saying, "Hey I support this and want to give money..." I do have issues with the church stake presidents calling up members and saying, "Brother Smith, we see that you are paying "X" tithing and so are making about "$X,000" a year so we think that is it reasonable for you to donate about $X,000 to the coalition of churches for the proposition 8 agenda. We will get a receipt back from the coalition of churches telling us how much you donated so that we can add it to your tithing settlement interview and get a write off. Thank you so much for your support." Now, I wasn't there, I am hearing this from my California friends who were seeing this happen and hearing the weekly talks from the pulpit that in their words, got very old very quickly. As well as the broadcasts from SLC Church HQ about supporting the topic and encouraging members to support and work with their local leaders to push this through. Yeah, I feel the church was way out of line here... (The documentary "Proposition 8" is relevant.) Now, some of the local leaders might have been acting on their own initiative in regards to some of this, but the leadership of the church up to the prophet seemed to egg this on and encourage it but did not stop or curb it at all.
I was very pleased to see that the Supreme Court did in fact through out Proposition 8 and is allowing Gay marriages this last week. It wasn't that long ago that the LDS church was pressing for the freedom to have plural marriages. How happy our early leaders would have been to have the freedoms that we are now trying to deny to others today. (Rolling eyes...)
Here's what gets me... I read the churches response to the Supreme Court ruling... Here is what they said:
Quote:"By ruling that supporters of Proposition 8 lacked standing to bring this case to court, the Supreme Court has highlighted troubling questions about how our democratic and judicial system operates," said Church spokesman Michael Otterson. "Many Californians will wonder if there is something fundamentally wrong when their government will not defend or protect a popular vote that reflects the views of a majority of their citizens."
I am wondering if there is something fundamentally wrong with the church spokesman Michael Otterson or the church for allowing him to outright say that the church believes that the popular vote should be so powerful that the majority should have the right to force the minority into compliance with their beliefs! I cannot believe how many people are OK with the idea that the majority should have the right to enforce laws against the minorities based on religious belief systems. Like the government telling Daniel that he can't pray.
The majority should be protecting the rights of the minority. It is the ONLY way that freedom for all and ultimately peace can be achieved. Peace can be and is ONLY achieved when we are moving toward greater equality first followed closely by greater freedom. The right to choose who you marry is a freedom which is not equally extended to all people and groups. (I agree that the government should have no say in who you marry, and so we should be trying to take that power from the government as an end goal, but until then, if the government does think that they have the power to allow you to marry or not, then it should not discriminate or even say that you can marry who you like as long as you marry in this criteria.)
The church is also strongly against interracial marriages. If they succeeded in preventing Gay marriage, then would they also press for denying interracial marriage? Pressing for the government to have more control over who we marry is going the wrong way, moving away from freedom and leading to anger, unrest, strive and war.
I am sure that some on this forum will disagree with me. That is ok. The funny thing is that I would still vote for their freedom to choose to disagree with me and even act on it as long as they were not hurting me or my rights or others and their rights. BUT, even though I would vote for the freedom of those that disagree with me, they would not not for me to have the same freedoms that I would extend to them. This means that they would live happily if I were the majority and we would have peace. But if they were the majority and had the right to take the freedoms of the minority then they would and they would not have peace.
Also, those who are willing to take the freedoms of others by the vote of the majority will be happy only when they are the majority. When they become the minority they will find that the system they supported sucks because they are having their freedoms taken in the same way they took the freedoms of others.
These is a universal law called "The universal Law of Application" which is akin to the golden rule that suggests that we treat others the same way we want to be treated. The difference between the "Golden Rule" and the "Law of Universal Application" is that that the Golden Rule is good advice where as the Law of Universal Application says that you WILL receive back what you have given. For example, here are some ways that the Law of Universal Application has been applied:
- Judge not lest ye be judged
- Forgive that ye may be forgiven
- Make other's equal with you and God will make you equal with Him
- Take and it will be taken from you, Give and it will be given to you
Remember the story about the Widow Zarephath who gave her last oil and meal to make bread for Elijah and the miracle happened in which the barrel and oil renewed itself until the end of the drought. That was a miracle that relied on the Law of Universal Application to work. If she did not give to Elijah, then the miracle could not have happened. This is a Universal Law that even God cannot break just as God can't lie without being God.
When you apply the Law of Universal Application to the Church pressing to limit the freedoms of people to choose who they marry, the results are terrible! The church is creating a world in which their rights will be limited by the majority. Not a good plan, not in line with eternal truth. Sure they can try to play Satan's role and force everyone to heaven through laws that require others to live righteous lives, (according to the Church's current views of what is right), but that was what Satan got kicked out of heaven for doing!!! He was trying to make his heaven but in the process he was making it hell for the rest of the people there.
Heaven requires freedom. If we want to live in heaven we need to know how to be free without taking the freedoms of others. Our presence in heaven can't make it hell for others, God included, or we won't be allowed in. We need to learn to live in heaven not only for ourselves, but for others as well. The Only way to do it is to give others the freedoms we want for ourselves. The only way is to make others equal with us and us equal with others, then extend increasing freedom to everyone, ourselves included. Then we can live in peace and love and ultimately Heaven with God.
There was a time when expecting that the majority should have the right to force the minority into conformance was a better way of living. When we were moving away from dictators where a single person had the right to force everyone else into compliance, having the majority make decisions was a better way, but still lacking. The higher way is for the majority to protect the rights of the minority rather than the majority to take the place of the dictator and rule over the minority.
Quote:Church spokesman Michael Otterson. "Many Californians will wonder if there is something fundamentally wrong when their government will not defend or protect a popular vote that reflects the views of a majority of their citizens."
No sir, something is VERY RIGHT when the government will protect the freedoms of the minorities when the majority attempts to dictate over the minorities! And it is the majority that is out of line for attempting to interfere with the governing of the lives of others who are not seeking freedoms beyond what they have already given to others.
It seems funny that so many will say that giving Gays the rights to marry is contrary to the heavenly society and so we have gone away from it, when actually this is a BIG win for the progress of our society toward a heavenly society.
Remember that we sinned in the presence of God before coming to this earth and were not kicked out of God's presence. It was not sin that got Satan kicked out of heaven, it was taking or attempting to take the agency of others that was so bad that it merited exile. Also, remember that eternal increase resulting from the marriage or sealing of a man and a woman is not the only type of life available in the Celestial Kingdom. It may be the highest of the degrees of Glory, but there are two other degrees of glory in the Celestial Kingdom which do not require sexually active male/female relationships. Celestial beings do not have to be married at all. And they will be completely happy in the other degrees of glory in the Celestial kingdom.
Thanks for letting me vent...
God bless,
Amonhi
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