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Home » The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints » LDS Deep Doctrine » Gospel Doctrine - "He Took Up ... the Mantle of Elijah"
Gospel Doctrine - "He Took Up ... the Mantle of Elijah" [message #149] Sun, 01 August 2010 12:10 Go to next message
Seeker is currently offline  Seeker
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Registered: June 2010
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Ok, It's my turn to be frustrated. Today in Sunday School class we had the lesson, "He Took Up ... the Mantle of Elijah". It seemed that the entire lesson was a campaign for the current leadership design of the church. We would read a scripture verse and then talk about how it is done today and how we should be like the people under Elijah and Elisha.

For example, the after reading about Elisha taking up the mantel of Elijah the lesson manual asks,Quote:
"Who has the mantle of the prophet today? (The current President of the Church.) How is this mantle transferred when the prophet dies?"
This is fine and all for those who don't know, but then the poor sales pitch comes in...Quote:
President Joseph Fielding Smith explained:

"There is no mystery about the choosing of the successor to the President of the Church. The Lord settled this a long time ago, and the senior apostle automatically becomes the presiding officer of the Church, and he is so sustained by the Council of the Twelve which becomes the presiding body of the Church when there is no First Presidency.

How did the Lord settle this? Read The "Succession Crisis" here -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succession_crisis_(Latter_Day_Saints)

Note that Hyrum was "anointed" and openly declared by the prophet to be Joseph's successor.Quote:
"Did Joseph Smith ordain any man to take his place. He did. Who was it? It was Hyrum, but Hyrum fell a martyr before Joseph did. If Hyrum had lived he would have acted for Joseph" - Brigham Young (Times and Seasons, 5 [Oct. 15, 1844]: 683).
But Hyrum died with Joseph. Who then was next in line? Quote:
Following the principle of lineal succession, Smith's younger brother Samuel was the next potential candidate in line. Sometime between June 2327, 1844, Smith reportedly stated that "if he and Hyrum were taken away, Samuel H. Smith would be his successor" (Smith, An Intimate Chronicle, p. 138; William Clayton Diary, typescript, 12 July 1844, original in First Presidency's Archives)- Wiki Succession Crisis
So where was Samuel? He mysteriously died 4 days after the death of Joseph Smith. Quote:
The sole remaining Smith brother, William, charged that Brigham Young had arranged for Samuel to be poisoned to prevent his accession to the presidency. Others attributed Samuel's death to an internal injury sustained during his retrieval of the bodies or to illness. William Smith's charges were not considered sufficiently well founded to merit pursuit by legal authorities. - Wiki "Samuel_Harrison_Smith"
What about Sidney Rigdon? He was the first counselor in the first presidency and a worthy man. (I know that the current doctrine of the church is that the first Presidency is disolved on the death of the prophet.) On April 19, 1834, Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery had Quote:
"laid hands upon bro. Sidney [Rigdon] and confirmed upon him the blessings of wisdom and knowledge to preside over the Church in the absence of brother Joseph" (Joseph Smith Diary, 19 April 1834, Church Archives; Jessee, Papers of Joseph Smith, vol. 2, pp. 3132).
Uponi the death of the Prophet, Rigdon received a revelation saying that he was to be the leader of the church, and he rushed back to Nauvoo.

Brigham Young didn't find out about the death of Joseph Smith for months. During that time, John Taylor, Willard Richards and William W. Phelps calmed the saints and took over the church.Quote:
"Immediately after the martyrdom of Joseph, John Taylor, Willard Richards and William W. Phelps took a kind of temporary direction of the affairs of the church, instructing the saints to wait patiently the hand of the Lord; assuring them that he had not left them without a shepherd, and that all things would be made known in due season. To every question of the saints, Who is the prophet? replies were made, in substance, that the saints would know in due season, but that nothing could be done until the Twelve got home, because the appointment of a prophet and the directions for salvation of the church from the perils they were in, was contained in sealed packages directed to them. Orson Hyde and others of the Twelve, who were then in the east, stated in public congregations in New York, Philadelphia and other cities, that Willard Richards had written to them that the appointment of a prophet was left with him, under seal, to be opened on the return of the Twelve. This assertion was so often made that the whole church were daily expecting to hear a new prophet proclaimed. On the 8th day of August, 1844, when Sidney Rigdon endeavored to obtain authority to lead the church, John P. Green, marshal of the city of Nauvoo, told them, 'They need not trouble themselves about it, for Joseph had appointed one James J. Strang, who lived up north, to stand in his stead.' The sudden death of John P. Green immediately after this declaration (under very extraordinary circumstances) left Willard Richards and John Taylor sole repositors of all documents on this subject, except this letter." - Strang (1848), pg. 4.
Later when the 12 returned, these secret letters were quietly forgotten.

There were more successors than you could shake a stick at. Even Emma Smith the prophets wife did not accept Brigham Young as the president of the church. Brigham Young said that upon hearing of the death of Joseph Smith that he wondered if the keys of the kingdom were gone. Then when he arrived back in Nauvoo and found Sidney Rigdon was telling people that he was the successor, Brigham began his own campaign for presidency and for the Quorum of the 12 to take lead of the church.

On Aug. 8, 1844, a conference was held with the present membership of the church in which only Rigon and Young presented their views evidences and reasons. Then Phelps spoke and expressed favor in Brigham Young's position. And the members present were asked to vote in favor of one or the other. It was by the majority vote that Brigham Young became President of the Church. This is how the Lord did it! By vote of the Membership.

Funny how if the people want a king, the Lord gives them a king. And if the people Choose Brigham Young, then the Lord gives them Brigham Young.

Back to the lesson, showing how the Lord does things, President Hinckly says,Quote:
The Presidency was then reorganized, following a precedent well established through generations of the past [this precedent is explained in the preceding statement by President Joseph Fielding Smith]. There was no campaigning, no contest, no ambition for office. It was quiet, peaceful, simple, and sacred. It was done after the pattern which the Lord Himself had put in place" (in Conference Report, Apr. 1995, 92; or Ensign, May 1995, 69).


That isn't how it was done the first time. But it because a precedent and the way things were done after Brigham Young made sure that the church would know in advance how things would be done from there on out.

Back to the campaigning for our submition, the manual says, Quote:
How did the people respond when they saw Elisha duplicate Elijah's miracle of parting the waters of Jordan? (See 2 Kings 2:1415.) Why is it important that we immediately accept and sustain a newly ordained President of the Church? (See D&C 43:23, 7.)
If you read the scriptures, it says that the people who were sign seekers saw the miracle and immediately bowed to the earth before Elisha. I will not bow to any man, even the prophet of the church. I will not bow physically and why should I bow spiritually?

The manual then says, Quote:
What did Elisha say to the people when the 50 men came back without finding Elijah? (See 2 Kings 2:18.) What can we learn from the experience of the 50 men? (We should follow the counsel of the prophet the first time we hear it.)
This takes no account for what we are being asked to do. This comes from the view point that no-matter what we are asked to do, we should do it without question because the prophet said to. No personal revelation needed, just blind obedience. And it is criticizing the 50 for questioning Elisha. I will question the Prophet and President every time when it comes to my own decision. I will consider the counsel and prayerfully seek for myself what to do. At the end of the day, I have to suffer the consequences for my own actions, My leaders don't. And I have not been an agent to myself if I don't make the decisions my own.

How can I be made a God if all I know is to do what someone else has told me to do? And if I followed unquestioning and the leader was wrong, then I am told they will be cures or receive the sin. And if that is true and I follow and they are right, then they must also receive the blessing and exaltation and they will forever be my God until I can learn to be a God to myself.

The lesson concluded with this statement: Quote:
Testify that the President of the Church is a prophet of God. Encourage class members to sustain new Church leaders and to follow the counsel of the prophets.
I am a prophet of God too. But I will never tell anyone to obey me if the spirit hasn't confirmed it to them first! It frustrates me that we are told to rely on the prophet more than on the Spirit of God. And we are given all manor of excuses for why following the prophet blindly is always the right answer. As if the prophet were the Rock or firm foundation on which if we build we cannot fall...

Leading away form the spirit is the worst doctrine ever taught. We can be forgiven for not following the prophet, but the sin against the Holy Ghost is not forgiven in this life or the next.


~ Seeker
Re: Gospel Doctrine - "He Took Up ... the Mantle of Elijah" [message #150 is a reply to message #149] Sun, 01 August 2010 17:04 Go to previous message
Dragon is currently offline  Dragon
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How interesting you are one lesson ahead of me. I feel like I'm halfway to having my lesson prepared for next week. If you recall the lesson from the previous week (which I taught today), before Elijah prophesied, the kingdom worshiped Baal. There was a big showdown between the Priests of Baal and A prophet of God. I find it interesting that Obidiah hid 100 prophets in caves by 50. So, 100 prophets survived the hunt initiated by Jezebel. Did the mantle of authority pass to any of them? No. Elijah went to a farmer plowing his fields, and Elisha begged to say goodbye to his parents first, which he was allowed to do. Elisha wasn't the obvious choice from the world's perspective.

Additionally, I made a point of saying in my lesson that Elijah was one of a few people seen in the flesh long after his lifetime, but before the death of Jesus, meaning he never died. We are told that we SHOULD pray to receive a witness that the new prophet is God's choice.

I personally believe there will come a time in the not so distant future when there will be a question as to the succession of the Presidency. I have a feeling even the 12 will be divided on the subject. What circumstances could lead to such a division? I'm not certain. Perhaps if the current presiding president named a successor other than the President of the Quorum, and after his death this was disputed. It is Church Policy, not Gospel Doctrine that the senior most Apostle takes the presidency. Thus I believe there will come a time when circumstances dictate something other than Church Policy.

- Dragon


- Dragon
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