Home » The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints » LDS Deep Doctrine » Unconventional Lines of Priesthood authority (How God has always worked...)
| Unconventional Lines of Priesthood authority [message #2848] |
Sat, 09 November 2013 04:56  |
Amonhi
Messages: 237
Registered: June 2010
Location: Las Vegas, NV.
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Senior Member |
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Ok, so the title is a bit misleading. We Mormons tend to think that there is only one valid line of authority today. And we tend to accept meaning realize or acknowledge two lines of authority in ancient times, The one from Adam to Noah to Abraham which we think trickles down the lines to Christ, and most members accept that their is a line of authority in the book of Mormon which gave them the right to baptize, preach etc.
The thing that seems odd, but isn't is that there are most often multiple lines of authority running at the same time and one line does not tell the other what to do.
For example, while the children of Israel were in Egypt, Levites were not the ONLY priesthood holders on the earth, and the priesthood they held was not the greatest to be found in the general area. In fact, the Levitical Priesthood they had was the least available in the area. If you wanted a priesthood blessing, you couldn't go to the Children of Israel to get it, but you could go to the descendants of Ishmael.
There are and have been many other lines of priesthood. Moses him self received the Melchizedek priesthood from one of these unconventional lines of authority, Jethro the Priest of Midian who was a descendant of Abraham's firstborn son Ishmael. Jethro is also revered as a prophet in the Islamic History. Jethro's line of priesthood came down a long line of people until that line came to Esaias who "received it under the hand of God." (D&C 84:12)
That line of the Melchizedek priesthood continued alone after Moses died and the children of Israel, specifically the descendants of Aaron who were a portion of the Levite tribe had the Aaronic Priesthood which was slightly greater than the Levitical Priesthood as held by all the Levites. (Levitical priesthood was much like a Teacher under the Aaronic priesthood, which could perform the functions similar to our Teachers and Deacons today. But they could not perform the functions that our Aaronic priesthood Priests of today can do.)
Even more importantly is that when the Children of Isreal under Moses showed they could not receive the Higher law and Melchizedek Priesthood, they were given the Law of Moses and Aaronic priesthood. But the line of Jethro already had the Melchizedek priesthood and had for some time. They were not subject to Moses or his law or the Aaronic priesthood. They continued to maintain the higher priesthood and were not put under the law of Moses. Like a separate church altogether. Moses and the Children of Israel had a line of authority that didn't go back to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob but to Esaias who received it from God's hand directly. We seem to think that because the records we have tell us about the Law of Moses and the Christ that came to save men from this law and the fall so they could be redeemed to the higher law and return to the presence of God, (like Adam and so many others had been), that this is the only story going on. But it isn't.
The Melchizedek priesthood Line of Shem, son of Noah eventually extended down through Asia is was active and prominent in throughout the history of China and Tibet for very many years. Some say that some of the Tibetans still have the ancient knowledge and priesthood far beyond what we Mormons are ready to accept today.
There have been many lines throughout history. This is how God works. There are many lines today and upgrades to lines which are not recognized by the LDS church, but which are important lines recognized, accepted and led by God. These lines of course do not have keys over the LDS church organization and have no business leading or acting in the church except as permitted and recognized by the church protocols and procedures.
The Book of Mormon records a line that starts with Lehi and ends with Moroni. This line was kind of a break off of the Moses line which had the Aaronic Priesthood and was under the law of Moses, unlike the Jethro and other lines.
The Book of Mormon also records a separate line in the Book of Ether which was running shortly after the time of the Tower of Babel while other lines remained in the Old country. That line lasted quite a number of years until it ended Ether.
The book of Mormon also includes a few upgraded lines like that of 3rd Nephi who received the sealing power directly from God and the Melchizedek priesthood that was given by Christ to the 12 disciples who passed it around to others.
The bible also includes a few upgraded lines like that of Elijah and Elisha who had the higher priesthood while the rest of Israel had the Aaronic priesthood. They receive their "upgrades" from God directly as did a number of others.
Quote:"Answer to the question, Was the Priesthood of Melchizedek taken away when Moses died? All Priesthood is Melchizedek, but there are different portions or degrees of it. That portion which brought Moses to speak with God face to face was taken away; but that which brought the ministry of angels remained. All the prophets had the Melchizedek Priesthood and were ordained by God himself." - TotPJS page 180-181
It seems strange to me that God would change from the way he has done things for thousands of years to a very limited system which the church accepts today. Even more than that, I know that God has not changes. I know a number of people who are in the church who have received "Upgrades" to their priesthood which are not recognized by the church. (More specifically Members of the Spiritual Church of the Firstborn who also remain members of the Physical LDS Church.) There are also lines of Authority outside the church system which were established by God.
Quote:7 Wherefore, I the Lord, knowing the calamity which should come upon the inhabitants of the earth, called upon my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and spake unto him from heaven, and gave him commandments;
18 And also gave commandments to others, that they should proclaim these things unto the world; and all this that it might be fulfilled, which was written by the prophets-- D&C 1:17-18
Who are the Others mentioned here with Joseph Smith who like Joseph were calling on by God from heaven and given commandments that they should like Joseph proclaim these things to the world? Are they as relevant as Joseph in restoring lines of authority as these verses seem to indicate?
Another line of Authority that comes through the 4 angels who are over the earth is mentioned in D&C 77:11.
Quote:11 Q. What are we to understand by sealing the one hundred and forty-four thousand, out of all the tribes of Israel--twelve thousand out of every tribe?
A. We are to understand that those who are sealed are high priests, ordained unto the holy order of God, to administer the everlasting gospel; for they are they who are ordained out of every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, by the angels to whom is given power over the nations of the earth, to bring as many as will come to the church of the Firstborn.
These people are ordained by angels and made high priests. When you become a high priest, your line of authority changes and no longer goes through your Melchizedek priesthood line. In this case, the line of authority goes directly to the angels who called and ordained them. The LDS Church does not recognize their authority or record the ordination. they aren't even called to bring people to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints like the LDS missionary force is doing, they are called to bring people to the Church of the Firstborn by getting their calling and election made sure. Some who join this church bypass the LDS church altogether and never become members of the LDS church.
We know by revelation that this line will exist in the last days while the church line exists. I know from firsthand experience that it exists right now.
"taliesin"Do you think the Tibetan priesthood (and any other existing priesthood lines) will ever be merged with the LDS church?
Hmmm, we tend to think that the LDS church is the BIG fish in the religious pond. The alpha and omega. The church of the Firstborn is the goal. And the LDS Church is trying to prepare its people to merge with it. And yes all sorts of religions and non-religions lead to that end. I know a small number of mortals who have gotten there via other paths and a large number of spiritual beings who have. The LDS church got my family and many others there and is, in many ways one of the best paths, aside from being ministered to by the 144,000. the Church of the Firstborn is far greater than the LDS Church, but it exists spiritually, and you must be able to recognize and interact with the spiritual to be an active member. So, until the LDS membership can become spiritual, they are stuck with the physical church which is trying to prepare them for the spiritual church.
Quote:What knowledge and priesthood do the Tibetans have that is so far beyond what we as Mormons are ready to accept?
Not all of them mind you... I have been thinking about how to word this... I want to say they are learning to BE Gods, but I realize that so are we... And I also realize that I have been taught many things by the spirit and angels that some of them have been taught. And even others who are not Tibetan have been taught these and other things. So, it is hard to say that being Tibetan gives you a leg up in knowledge or even the priesthood. There are lines there that are very old, and knowledge about being a God which is far advanced from what we are taught in church. More specifically the practice of being a God here and now. Influencing the world etc. You don't have to be Tibetan to learn these things. Even science is discovering them, proving them in the fields of Quantum physics and Neuroscience.
Mormons are still learning love and peace and how to live with other groups who believe differently without interfering with their agency which are prerequisites to gaining God like powers. Imagine if the Mormons had God like powers. how would they use them to influence the world? I think they would force their wills on others in the same way they try to force their moral code through laws. What kind of Gods would our culture be as it stands right now? Listen to the Sunday talks and the lessons and the way that we talk about things and ask, what would this person do with God powers and that attitude/belief? I do not think it would be pretty.
Imagine having the sealing power. Not like the temple sealers, but like 3rd Nephi where you could turn the rain on and off like a faucet, cause earth quakes or other natural disasters. How would you use it? knowing you could, but also knowing when it is appropriate to do so. Giving such power to the unprepared is like giving a nuclear weapon to a 7 year old. When that kid doesn't get his way, is he going to use it to destroy those who don't agree with him or who are stopping him from getting what he wants? :-s
Also, we, in general, are still almost completely unaware of how to use their spiritual bodies to interact with the spiritual world. Changing it, using it, creating in it. All things are created spiritually first. We helped to create the world and we still have all the blessings, powers rights and privileges we gained as spirits. But we don't use them or we use them unconsciously and create havoc.
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| Re: Unconventional Lines of Priesthood authority [message #3413 is a reply to message #2848] |
Mon, 02 February 2015 03:15  |
Michael Davis
Messages: 7
Registered: January 2015
Location: Montana
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Junior Member |
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Amonhi
I found this forum by accident the other day... Well I guess I should truly say, "I was guided to this forum unknowingly". I have read many of your posts Amonhi, and I agree with many things which you have written. This one, (I think) is very misleading, and could be construed by some and needs further clarification.... Are there other lines of Priesthood one this earth?? The Answer is Yes. But do they have Authority?? The Answer is No. There is but one line of Priesthood Authority on the earth at any given time.
To further explain what I'm saying lets go to D&C 132 , 7 and 8.
7."And verily I say unto you, that the conditions of this law are these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, and that too most holy, by revelation and commandment through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this power (and I have appointed unto my servant Joseph to hold this power in the last days, and there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom this power and the keys of this priesthood are conferred), are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead".
The next verse explains why there is only one line of Authority on the earth at a given time. This is sooo important to understand why our LORD only allows one line of Authority at a given time.
[b]8 Behold, mine house is a house of order, saith the Lord God, and not a house of confusion.[/b]
If GOD allowed multiple lines of Authority at a given time "HIS house would become a house of confusion, and he would ceases to be GOD. But I Michael, testify to every soul that should read this, that HE is GOD and HIS house is a house of order.
A few months ago I was given a book called "Visions of Glory". After I finished reading it I wanted to find out more about the Author and that somehow lead me to here. If you haven't read this book yet Amonhi, I think you should give it a try. Its not a book for everyone, but by things you have written and your understand of the Gospel I think you would find it enjoyable. If you have already read this book, I would like to use Chapter 9 of "Spencers" Vision. There are profound events that happen and I'm sure many who have read this book have asked why they were not able to fully partake of all the blessing the Gospel offers??? In Vision this individual "Spencer" goes to retrieve a very righteous people and bring them to Zion. This people, although extremely righteous with un-canning spiritual gifts still lacked the most important parts of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. They held Priesthood but without Authority they could not receive all the blessings the Church of Jesus Christ has to offer. Only when they come to Zion and have proper Authority give for this Dispensation, and in the house of the LORD are they finally able to partake in all that is offered.
Thank you for all that you have written Amonhi, I still have much to read through on this forum but what you have written I have enjoyed. Please don't think that I'm attacking anything you have said. I just believe that this needed to be added for clarification sake.
Michael
PS If this post makes no sense please forgive me.... Its 3am here in Montana.
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