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Home » The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints » LDS Deep Doctrine » Judas - a Son of Perdition, or not?
Judas - a Son of Perdition, or not? [message #2479] Tue, 21 May 2013 14:31 Go to next message
JulesGP
Messages: 357
Registered: May 2012
Location: Davis County, UT
Senior Member

I've seen back and forth discussion on whether or not Judas became a Son of Perdition when he betrayed Christ, and handed him over to be killed. He would have to have accepted his Calling and Election when it was offered to him individually, and confirmed by the Holy Spirit of Promise - as just walking and talking with the mortal Christ would not have qualified him for that (otherwise everyone Christ came into contact with during his lifetime would have automatically become a member of the CoFB). I came across this scripture that seems to confirm, that Judas KNEW that he had become a SOP.

Quote:
3 ¶Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.

5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.


What say ye?


~Jules

[Updated on: Tue, 21 May 2013 14:32]

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Re: Judas - a Son of Perdition, or not? [message #2483 is a reply to message #2479] Wed, 22 May 2013 20:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kenh is currently offline  kenh
Messages: 62
Registered: June 2012
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From Spencer W. Kimball's book Miracle of Forgiveness we read:
Speculation as to individual sons of perdition is at best unprofitable. Some have consigned Judas Iscariot to this doom, based on certain scriptural passages. (See John 12:6; 6:70; 17:12; Acts 1:20.) President Joseph F. Smith questions this interpretation:
To my mind it strongly appears that not one of the disciples possessed sufficient light, knowledge nor wisdom, at the time of the crucifixion, for either exaltation or condemnation; for it was afterward that their minds were opened to understand the scriptures, and that they were endowed with power from on high; without which they were only children in knowledge, in comparison to what they afterwards became under the influence of the Spirit.
I tend to agree with President Joseph F. Smith on this one. After Pentacost the Apostles having had the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost finally understood who Christ really was and is. It takes the power of the Holy Ghost at that lebvel to give one the accountability that would qualify one to become a son of perdition. We do not have a record of Judas Iscariot having sufficent spiritual knowledge which can only be obtained by the revelations of the Holy Ghost to qualify to become a son of perdition.
Re: Judas - a Son of Perdition, or not? [message #2486 is a reply to message #2483] Thu, 23 May 2013 22:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JulesGP
Messages: 357
Registered: May 2012
Location: Davis County, UT
Senior Member

Hmmm, that's a good point Ken, so maybe he understood that the shedding of innocent blood was what would bring someone to perdition - so he assumed that he had sinned that big. But maybe he hadn't yet received his C&E, so he would not have the same consequences as one who had. I'll have to keep studying and see if I can learn anything more on this. Thank you!

~Jules
Re: Judas - a Son of Perdition, or not? [message #2490 is a reply to message #2486] Fri, 24 May 2013 11:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
zone
Messages: 17
Registered: March 2013
Location: Middle Earth
Junior Member
kenh makes a good point... I still am curious why Jesus said this:

"Good [were it] for that man if he had not been born." Matthew 26:24

He never said this to Peter who denied Christ 3 times. Perhaps Peter was told to deny Christ perhaps the Lord just forgave him. Though for the same reason the spirit was lacking

Quote:
None were with him: Holland

The most difficult to understand in this group is Judas Iscariot. We know the divine plan required Jesus to be crucified, but it is wrenching to think that one of His special witnesses who sat at His feet, heard Him pray, watched Him heal, and felt His touch could betray Him and all that He was for 30 pieces of silver. Never in the history of this world has so little money purchased so much infamy. We are not the ones to judge Judas's fate, but Jesus said of His betrayer, "Good [were it] for that man if he had not been born." 7


[Updated on: Fri, 24 May 2013 11:30]

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Re: Judas - a Son of Perdition, or not? [message #2492 is a reply to message #2479] Sat, 25 May 2013 06:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
brrgilbert is currently offline  brrgilbert
Messages: 282
Registered: December 2012
Location: Nampa, Idaho
Senior Member
The Lord makes the inference that Judas, because he sold him for silver, is indeed a son of perdition. Note the following verse from the Savior's visit to this continent:

Quote:
(3 Nephi 27:32.)

32 But behold, it sorroweth me because of the fourth generation from this generation, for they are led away captive by him even as was the son of perdition; for they will sell me for silver and for gold, and for that which moth doth corrupt and which thieves can break through and steal. And in that day will I visit them, even in turning their works upon their own heads.



"I must endure the presence of a few caterpillars if I wish to become acquainted with the butterflies."

The Little Prince by St. Exupery
Re: Judas - a Son of Perdition, or not? [message #2495 is a reply to message #2492] Sat, 25 May 2013 15:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sheol27 is currently offline  Sheol27
Messages: 49
Registered: April 2013
Location: Wyoming
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I'm not sure whether he is or is not a SOP and it isn't for me to judge but for entertainments sake I would like to comment. Peter had it revealed to him by the father whom Christ was:

"Matthew 16:
15 He saith unto them, But whom say aye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven ."

Did Peter know enough to become a SOP? He never actually denied Jesus was the Christ. If Peter had enough revealed to him could have Judas as well? I'm sorry if I only have added more questions and less answers..... Very Happy
Re: Judas - a Son of Perdition, or not? [message #2541 is a reply to message #2495] Tue, 04 June 2013 20:17 Go to previous message
Kaai is currently offline  Kaai
Messages: 6
Registered: December 2012
Location: Hawaii
Junior Member
Sheol27 wrote on Sat, 25 May 2013 11:15
I'm not sure whether he is or is not a SOP and it isn't for me to judge but for entertainments sake I would like to comment. Peter had it revealed to him by the father whom Christ was:

"Matthew 16:
15 He saith unto them, But whom say aye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven ."

Did Peter know enough to become a SOP? He never actually denied Jesus was the Christ. If Peter had enough revealed to him could have Judas as well? I'm sorry if I only have added more questions and less answers..... Very Happy


This, to me, is a sweet and tender exchange between the Savior and Peter. Peter, recognizing the Lord for who He truly was, is acknowledged by the Christ who addresses him by his given name, Simon Bar-jona. Very telling.


"And seek the face of the Lord always, that in patience ye may possess your souls, and ye shall have eternal life."
D&C 101:38
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