Home » Angels, Demons, Miracles and the like... » Miracles » A lifetime of miracles, still waiting for C&E
| Re: A lifetime of miracles, still waiting for C&E [message #1324 is a reply to message #1323] |
Fri, 26 October 2012 01:03   |
Ashleyd
Messages: 100
Registered: May 2012
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Ok... let me share this with you. Part of the reason I was given this inspiration was to share with others to help them. It was the 3rd day after I had accepted the Gift. A question came to my mind about why even though the gift was offered to me years earlier I was only just now really feeling the full affects of it and benefitting from it since accepting it. I remember asking Jules if C&E is only truly valid once a person accepts it. She like me wasn't sure. So on that third day in the morning I had a sudden outpouring of the spirit. It was an Incredible day. The entire DAY was like that. But one of the things that came to me as I was thinking about that it were these words: " For what doth it profit a man if he is given a gift and receiveth it not?" Those words just suddenly came to me and they were from an outside source and so I asked Jules if she knew of a scripture verse that said that because it seemed like something out of the scriptures. I went searching for it and found the verse I was looking for in D&C 88 which Jules posted above.
I was suddenly gaining all of these insights about my journey and about the C&E process that truthfully I can't fully put into words now. But I literally felt like I was on Fire. And it was funny because Jules actually said that. " Ashley is on Fire today. " lol So my answer to that question was that He can offer a gift but if we cast it off by our unbeleif then it might as well be as if He didn't offer it. He cannot and will not force us to accept anything. However, if you have a desire to beleive let that desire work in you as Alma instructs and pray for help. Pray for Him to communicate to you in the way that best works for you. He knows your heart and He will answer you.
"I never heard of a man being condemned for believing too much, only for not beleiving enough." - Joseph Smith So this is how we remove the condemnation. By casting off our unbeleif and humbling ourselves before our maker and trusting in His judgements.
I will continue to pray for you Kevin. I have a desire for you to taste of the fruit that is white above all that is white and sweet above all that is sweet.... that you might have joy! 
[Updated on: Fri, 26 October 2012 01:18] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: A lifetime of miracles, still waiting for C&E [message #1326 is a reply to message #1310] |
Fri, 26 October 2012 02:13 |
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JulesGP
Messages: 357
Registered: May 2012
Location: Davis County, UT
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Denryu wrote on Thu, 25 October 2012 01:39Was my experience of a few weeks ago, hearing the voice in my mind saying "My son, my son, thou art my son and thou will be blessed!" was that the calling and election? I had expected the words "you will receive exaltation" or "you will be exalted".....
If I am rejecting the gift or simply failing to receive what is offered to me, please help me to understand how to receive it!
Kevin, I think you should pray about this - ASK Him if that's what it means! You may not hear the words "you will receive exaltation", but the Spirit cannot lie. You may just hear a quiet "yes".
Have you read through this thread and compared some of the scriptural accounts to your experiences?
http://www.elliaison.org/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=96&start=0&rid=35&S=e4eb149cb16df0ebed839cc2c9460061
These came to mind:
Enos (who received his C&E at this time) was told something similar to what you were told....
Quote: 5 And there came a voice unto me, saying: Enos, thy sins are forgiven thee, and thou shalt be blessed.
6 And I, Enos, knew that God could not lie; wherefore, my guilt was swept away.
.....
27 And I soon go to the place of my rest, which is with my Redeemer; for I know that in him I shall rest. And I rejoice in the day when my mortal shall put on immortality, and shall stand before him; then shall I see his face with pleasure, and he will say unto me: Come unto me, ye blessed, there is a place prepared for you in the mansions of my Father. Amen.
As was Alma....
Quote:15 Blessed art thou, Alma; therefore, lift up thy head and rejoice, for thou hast great cause to rejoice; for thou hast been faithful in keeping the commandments of God from the time which thou receivedst thy first message from him. Behold, I am he that delivered it unto you.
And Nephi....
Quote:4 Blessed art thou, Nephi,for those things which thou hast done; for I have beheld how thou hast with unwearyingness declared the word, which I have given unto thee, unto this people. And thou hast not feared them, and hast not sought thine own life, but hast sought my will, and to keep my commandments.
I hope that you'll be able to receive the understanding you are looking for. You will be in my prayers!
~Jules
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| Re: A lifetime of miracles, still waiting for C&E [message #1327 is a reply to message #1326] |
Fri, 26 October 2012 09:15 |
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Denryu
Messages: 88
Registered: July 2012
Location: American Fork
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Jules, Ashley,
Jules, it is funny that you mentioned about the "Yes" and "No" answers. the other night when I struggled that is all I was getting, which was unusual. What I am struggling with, the unbelief, is often when I have have heard a voice in my head, it was very clear to me that it was not something that was coming from me - but sometimes, like the other night, it is hard to distinguish if it is me having a conversation with myself or if it is from above.
And I know the cause of that and how to correct it - fasting and further prayer. I get those kinds of unclear messages when I ask but haven;t sufficiently prepared myself.
I also think that I need to be more gratedful for what I have received. I hope/expect so much, i.e. receiving the 2nd Comforter, I want the vision of the earth's history from beginning to end (including the portions that Nephi and others could not share) I want to know what the Lord wants of me and how I can best serve him through the remainder of my life - and hearing what others have said it simply doesn;t work that way. Denver talks a lot about still needing to go to work, provide for your family, etc. and others have mentioned that it doesn;t make you perfect and you still have to struggle with the natural man - I remember specifically Nephi's complaint in that regard.
My question for both of you, and anyone else that can answer, is what was the biggest change that you had when you accepted the gift? What removed the doubt from your mind so that you were able to believe? It is one thing to say "don't doubt", but sometimes easier said than done.
I do know that God lives - I have been given too many evidences to be able to deny that. And I also know that He loves me - again, same as above. But I do not know yet what He desires for me and from me. I stand ready to do whatever is asked of me, in fact I am excited and know that filling that "calling" will be the greatest joy of my life so far.
And again, perhaps I am waiting for what I have already received, because the spirit whispers to me that the calling is simply to be ready at all times and places to simply do as I am told - that perhaps it isn't a life plan laid out before me so much as a willingness to simply do in any given mooment what is told me in that moment to do. In fact, just now as I was typing this I got an impression of some scripture to the effect that it will not be given to you in advance but will be given to you in the moment - that's not it exactly, I will have to look for that scripture.
Thanks to you both again for being so supportive, and to Amonhi for his posts that helped me on this path as well as Dragon and others for your fellowship.
Libertas optimas rarem, nunquam servili sub nexu.
"There is no gift like Liberty, therefore never live under slavery."
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| Re: A lifetime of miracles, still waiting for C&E [message #1328 is a reply to message #1327] |
Fri, 26 October 2012 09:20 |
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Denryu
Messages: 88
Registered: July 2012
Location: American Fork
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D&C 10: 4-6
Quote:4 Therefore, I, the Lord, have suffered you to come unto this place; for thus it was expedient in me for the salvation of souls.
5 Therefore, verily I say unto you, lift up your voices unto this people; speak the thoughts that I shall put into your hearts, and you shall not be confounded before men;
6 For it shall be given you in the very hour, yea, in the very moment, what ye shall say.
This isn't exactly what I was thinking of, but it had the same general idea; you don't get what you should do or say in advance, you have to stay in tune and be ready to act at all times.
Libertas optimas rarem, nunquam servili sub nexu.
"There is no gift like Liberty, therefore never live under slavery."
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| Re: A lifetime of miracles, still waiting for C&E [message #1329 is a reply to message #1328] |
Fri, 26 October 2012 10:08 |
Ashleyd
Messages: 100
Registered: May 2012
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Senior Member |
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This is what I feel I should tell you. Instead of focusing on the changes that occur after you have accepted lets think about what YOU need from HF in order to accept it. Then those things will happen after and you will rejoice. Its not something that can fully be explained. You will have to experience it for yourself and then you will understand.
Think about the way in which answers come that are the easiest for you to accept and think about examples in the past where you were given confirmation of something in a way which allowed you to move past the doubt. For me, I knew that I would need TWO things from HF in order to accept it as truth and not doubt it later. 1. I needed him to show me WHERE the promise was given. I knew I would need to have that. Some people are just content to know it happened and they don't need to know when and that is awesome and takes great Faith. But I know myself, and I knew what I would need in order for it to really enter into my heart. 2. I needed an undeniable witness through the spirit and I pictured in my mind the way it would feel to have that truth confirmed. By picturing the way things have been given to me in the past and I KNEW with nothing doubting it was from God.
So I went to HF and prayed for those specific things so that I could move past my unbelief. And guess what? That is EXACTLY how it happened and how he answered me. Since then I have had scores of other witnesses to the truthfulness of these things. Don't be afraid to get specific in your requests. Think about what you would need to accept it and ask for that in Faith. You already have a certain level of Faith or you would not have arrived at this point.
[Updated on: Fri, 26 October 2012 10:11] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: A lifetime of miracles, still waiting for C&E [message #1344 is a reply to message #1329] |
Sun, 28 October 2012 13:57 |
zephyr
Messages: 129
Registered: May 2012
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Senior Member |
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Denryu,
In May of this year, I awoke to the Spirit telling me that I had been sealed up to eternal life, and my first reaction was doubt. I had to ask the Lord how this could be, then he explained it to me. He reminded me of the sacrifices I had made, and had expressed a willingness to make, and told me that I had qualified for it over and over again.
After that, I was filled with the Spirit in a way I had never before experienced. It was far more radiant and powerful than ever. This lasted, almost non-stop, for six days. I went to the temple, and it didn't stop there either.
As it turned out, the promise I received in May was actually a second witness. Because of my doubts about my own value, and because I didn't fully understand the doctrine of C&E, I denied myself this blessing when it was first promised, in 1976. I have had the loneliness that attends it since then, and I have had tremendous blessings as well, which is why I didn't notice a change after the second witness in May, I had been receiving some of the blessings of C&E for 36 years without knowing it.
I came to understand this on August 27th. A revelation burst upon my mind and I understood the whole thing, from the day the promise was first given until then. I was filled with joy unspeakable. I ran downstairs and showed my wife the tears of joy I had (a first for me). I was jumping up and down I was so happy. She said I was like Scrooge (George C. Scott version) on Christmas morning, and I was. My happiness was complete, my joy was full to overflowing AND I KNEW, NOTHING DOUBTING!!!!
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| Re: A lifetime of miracles, still waiting for C&E [message #1346 is a reply to message #1344] |
Sun, 28 October 2012 14:25 |
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JulesGP
Messages: 357
Registered: May 2012
Location: Davis County, UT
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Senior Member |
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zephyr wrote on Sun, 28 October 2012 13:57Denryu,
In May of this year, I awoke to the Spirit telling me that I had been sealed up to eternal life, and my first reaction was doubt. I had to ask the Lord how this could be, then he explained it to me. He reminded me of the sacrifices I had made, and had expressed a willingness to make, and told me that I had qualified for it over and over again.
After that, I was filled with the Spirit in a way I had never before experienced. It was far more radiant and powerful than ever. This lasted, almost non-stop, for six days. I went to the temple, and it didn't stop there either.
As it turned out, the promise I received in May was actually a second witness. Because of my doubts about my own value, and because I didn't fully understand the doctrine of C&E, I denied myself this blessing when it was first promised, in 1976. I have had the loneliness that attends it since then, and I have had tremendous blessings as well, which is why I didn't notice a change after the second witness in May, I had been receiving some of the blessings of C&E for 36 years without knowing it.
I came to understand this on August 27th. A revelation burst upon my mind and I understood the whole thing, from the day the promise was first given until then. I was filled with joy unspeakable. I ran downstairs and showed my wife the tears of joy I had (a first for me). I was jumping up and down I was so happy. She said I was like Scrooge (George C. Scott version) on Christmas morning, and I was. My happiness was complete, my joy was full to overflowing AND I KNEW, NOTHING DOUBTING!!!!
Zephyr, this is AWESOME!!! I LOVE hearing the stories of others and their C&E experiences! I was offered these blessings too long before I even understood anything about C&E. It took a messenger of God to hold my hand and teach me and babysit me through understanding it all, before I finally accepted it! (Sometime I will MAKE THE TIME to get my story posted....  ). Thank you for sharing another piece of yours.
Kevin, you are in my prayers, and the prayers of many others I know of.... I came across this scripture at the temple yesterday while I was waiting to go into the session:
Quote: 6 Now, this was what Ammon desired, for he knew that king Lamoni was under the power of God; he knew that the dark veil of unbelief was being cast away from his mind, and the light which did light up his mind, which was the light of the glory of God, which was a marvelous light of his goodness--yea, this light had infused such joy into his soul, the cloud of darkness having been dispelled, and that the light of everlasting life was lit up in his soul, yea, he knew that this had overcome his natural frame, and he was carried away in God--
The whole of Alma ch. 19 is awesome! It's a record of at least a couple of people who had received their C&E, so I would recommend it! But this particular part discusses how King Lamoni received his blessings. It was by casting off UNBELIEF (doubt), and overcoming the natural man (who is prone to this doubt and unbelief), that opened his mind to the blessings God offered him!
~Jules
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| Re: A lifetime of miracles, still waiting for C&E [message #1359 is a reply to message #1344] |
Mon, 29 October 2012 00:05 |
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Denryu
Messages: 88
Registered: July 2012
Location: American Fork
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Member |
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zephyr wrote on Sun, 28 October 2012 13:57Denryu,
In May of this year, I awoke to the Spirit telling me that I had been sealed up to eternal life, and my first reaction was doubt. I had to ask the Lord how this could be, then he explained it to me. He reminded me of the sacrifices I had made, and had expressed a willingness to make, and told me that I had qualified for it over and over again.
After that, I was filled with the Spirit in a way I had never before experienced. It was far more radiant and powerful than ever. This lasted, almost non-stop, for six days. I went to the temple, and it didn't stop there either.
As it turned out, the promise I received in May was actually a second witness. Because of my doubts about my own value, and because I didn't fully understand the doctrine of C&E, I denied myself this blessing when it was first promised, in 1976. I have had the loneliness that attends it since then, and I have had tremendous blessings as well, which is why I didn't notice a change after the second witness in May, I had been receiving some of the blessings of C&E for 36 years without knowing it.
I came to understand this on August 27th. A revelation burst upon my mind and I understood the whole thing, from the day the promise was first given until then. I was filled with joy unspeakable. I ran downstairs and showed my wife the tears of joy I had (a first for me). I was jumping up and down I was so happy. She said I was like Scrooge (George C. Scott version) on Christmas morning, and I was. My happiness was complete, my joy was full to overflowing AND I KNEW, NOTHING DOUBTING!!!!
zephyr, thank you for all you have done and are doing to help me along this path. I'm very grateful to you and others for your guidance. It seems that the message that I am getting from multiple sources is that I have some unlearning to do. I have spent so much gaining an academic understanding of a lot of the "mysteries" - it seems that I am being told that I need to take a step back and start living some basics better. I read that Denver said at his fireside tonight that these thigns are learned by living them, not by studying them.
And I am starting to live them, and I'm being blessed for it and I feel that I am progressing and being guided along. In fact, I am getting answers almost too easily. I mean if I take a few minutes to focus and calm my mind, it seems that the veil is very thin, at least to "hear" things thru. Still am not "seeing" which I recently realized is perfectly fine, I can be TOLD everything that I need to know without visual aids, and I need to be more grateful for the amazing blessings and communications that I am receiving. As always, I feel myself almost overwhelmed with how blessed I am and how quickly my needs and even righteous desires are answered.
Libertas optimas rarem, nunquam servili sub nexu.
"There is no gift like Liberty, therefore never live under slavery."
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| Re: A lifetime of miracles, still waiting for C&E [message #1369 is a reply to message #1325] |
Thu, 01 November 2012 13:47 |
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Denryu
Messages: 88
Registered: July 2012
Location: American Fork
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Gad just posted something over on LDSFF that was a huge revelation for me. An excerpt:
Quote:I teach my children that we must be baptized by water, receive the Holy Ghost, and then be adopted/sealed as a child of God by His voice. All three of these things happened on the day of Christ's baptism.
I realize that I have received these three things. I thought of the words spoken from above at Christ's baptism:
Quote:And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
and realized that I had "followed the pattern" as Gad explained it.
I am afraid though, afraid that I have "treated lightly" sacred things and not responded appropriately or with the awe and respect that the occasion deserved. As you can see I am still weak, struggling with many things. I do feel that there is something yet further that I am needing to receive, and the Lord is getting a bit impatient with me (or perhaps I am getting impatient with myself) to step forward and fully accept what I have been given.
And it appears that for a time, the heavens have withdrawn - I am having a very difficult time with my prayers - I can;t help but feel that the Lord is displeased with me. I feel that I am "doing it wrong" and that I need him to come take me by the hand and guide me step by step in what I need to do next.
I do feel that for now I just need to be patient, humble myself, fast, pray, and things will come at the time intended. I am sorry, Lord, for my weakness.
Libertas optimas rarem, nunquam servili sub nexu.
"There is no gift like Liberty, therefore never live under slavery."
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| Re: A lifetime of miracles, still waiting for C&E [message #1370 is a reply to message #1369] |
Thu, 01 November 2012 14:11 |
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JulesGP
Messages: 357
Registered: May 2012
Location: Davis County, UT
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Senior Member |
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Denryu wrote on Thu, 01 November 2012 13:47I do feel that there is something yet further that I am needing to receive,
Like... understanding?  
Quote:and the Lord is getting a bit impatient with me (or perhaps I am getting impatient with myself) to step forward and fully accept what I have been given.
I would wager that it is more you who is impatient with yourself, and the Lord is grinning at his son who is beginning to awake in his understanding
Quote:
And it appears that for a time, the heavens have withdrawn - I am having a very difficult time with my prayers - I can;t help but feel that the Lord is displeased with me. I feel that I am "doing it wrong" and that I need him to come take me by the hand and guide me step by step in what I need to do next.
Kevin don't let those feelings that you are "doing it wrong" discourage you! The Lord IS pleased with you, that is why he told you this!!
Quote:"My son, my son, thou art my son and thou will be blessed!"
The Lord doesn't just take back things like that because we don't "get it" fast enough (and "fast" is relative - as our understanding of time is different from the Lord's). You are seeking to understand and the Lord is pleased with that!
One thing I've been taught as I've had struggles with "spiritual dry spells" at times, is that sometimes the Lord allows this and allows us to STRETCH for his hand, to work harder for it. Every time that has happened, and I've stretched to reach for his hand, I've received an outpouring of the Spirit. It's also good to notice differences in when the spirit is stronger and specifically telling us something we need to pay attention to! But Kevin, feeling these feelings of discouragement and that the Lord is displeased because you aren't doing it right - is not of him. You ARE getting it, you ARE seeking to understand, you ARE doing it right!!
Quote:
I do feel that for now I just need to be patient, humble myself, fast, pray, and things will come at the time intended. I am sorry, Lord, for my weakness.
Take those realizations you talked about in your post, and THANK the Lord for those blessings. Then, what if you were to ask Him if they mean.............?
~Jules
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| Re: A lifetime of miracles, still waiting for C&E [message #1373 is a reply to message #766] |
Fri, 02 November 2012 13:53 |
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Denryu
Messages: 88
Registered: July 2012
Location: American Fork
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I have been praying a lot lately for the Lord to "remove my unbelief". I have been getting a lot of understanding of how in most cases, we progress from feelings (promptings) to words (tongue of angels) to visions to visitations. There is overlap (there has been with myself) and certainly there are exceptions, I think - but this has struck me as a pattern.
A few nights ago I was praying, and I was praying to see beyond the veil. The conversation went something like this:
Me: Please Lord, help me to see past the veil, so that I can know that I have received my C&E...
prompting: What can you see that will "Prove" to you what you have already heard? If you see something thru the veil it is every bit as susceptible to being explained away as imagination as what you have heard.
Me: . . .
prompting: Also, be careful not to seek after a sign. However, if you wish, put forth your hand and part the veil.
Me: ?! (first thought, "isn' that the Lord's to do?" and immediately with it "If the Lord commands, simply obey."
So lying in my bed I extended my right hand, and drew it from left to right as if parting a veil. And I got the impression of "difference" in the area that I had drawn back, yet I saw nothing.
prompting: What good does it do to part the veil, when your eyes are not yet open?
So a few things: I did get a bit of a sense of humor with the last prompting...and again I think I was being told things will be done in the Lord's time and in the Lord's way. In other words, YES! keep seeking further light and knowledge, diligently, but also strive not to ask amiss or for things that will do you no good.
I will say that I have learned a lot in the few days since then. One is, I am finding that if I am praying and having a lot of concern about temporal concerns (I am currently unemployed, but not in hardship yet) but it is getting very difficult to receive any answer or even to get a sense of communication. On the other hand, if I am pondering how to serve, how to further the Kingdom, or similar, heavenly communication seems to be there whether I am actively praying or not (or perhaps a better way to say it is such ponderings are an effective form of praying). It seems that as I ponder all of the C&E experiences that we know about, they occurred when the person stops praying for themself and starts praying for their brethren, or their nation, or even their enemies. So rather than approaching prayer as "I wonder what, if any, spiritual experience I am going to have?" I have actually found that to be a bit of a block (a stumbling one!) but as I have simply tried to understand the Lord's program and my part in it...that's when special, sacred things happen.
Libertas optimas rarem, nunquam servili sub nexu.
"There is no gift like Liberty, therefore never live under slavery."
[Updated on: Fri, 02 November 2012 14:21] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: A lifetime of miracles, still waiting for C&E [message #1383 is a reply to message #1375] |
Sun, 04 November 2012 07:56 |
Seeker
Messages: 244
Registered: June 2010
Location: Las Vegas
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Senior Member |
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Denryu,
LOL, I know your being ganged up on, and I have as yet to have thrown in my 2 cents, but I think this might actually be of value.
I know the Elliaison book says that we should first ask IF we have already received it, but I have found that it is difficult to get past the unbelief by asking an IF question...
I recommend that you instead sincerely thank the lord for giving you your calling and election and all the promised blessing that come with it. Don't use my words, go with your own. If the spirit/God says, "your welcome" then ask, how is it done or for the clarification that you need/want.
This way comes from a position of complete belief and acceptance. I have known more than a few who have received the promise or rather had a previous promise reconfirmed in this way. From what I have read from your posts, I think you might benefit from such an approach.
~ Seeker
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