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Home » The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints » LDS Deep Doctrine » They that are Without the Law (Discuss Moroni 8:22)
They that are Without the Law [message #319] Fri, 29 April 2011 18:19 Go to next message
Amonhi is currently offline  Amonhi
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Quote:
"For behold that all little children are alive in Christ, and also all they that are without the law. For the power of redemption cometh on all them that have no law; wherefore, he that is not condemned, or he that is under no condemnation, cannot repent; and unto such baptism availeth nothing--" - Moroni 8:22


1. What is "the law" referred to here?

2. Children are exempt from "the law" and some other group referred to as, "all they that are without the law". Who is "they".

3. Why are "they" not under the Law with everyone else?

4. Which group is bigger, "them that have no law" or "them that Do?"

Re: They that are Without the Law [message #320 is a reply to message #319] Fri, 29 April 2011 23:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon is currently offline  Dragon
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As with all these philosophical questions, we must establish a definition.
Quote:
law
1    /lɔ/ Show Spelled[law] Show IPA noun
1. the principles and regulations established in a community by some authority and applicable to its people, whether in the form of legislation or of custom and policies recognized and enforced by judicial decision. - dictionary.com


A1. The law of the gospel. Or, more specifically, the law which causes the need for people to repent of their sins.

A2. If we assume the other group is exempt for the same reason as children, it would be those who never achieve the mental capacity to make decisions. They are therefore not accountable for their actions.

The other possibility I see are those who do not know the law. The degree to which an individual knows a specific law, rule, or regulation is impossible for a mortal to determine. That is why the judgment is given to Jesus as both our advocate and judge.

A3. Sin is defined as knowingly acting against the will of God. Those who are without the law do not know they are acting against God's will and therefore do not sin. They transgress, but do not sin.

A4. I would say those who have no law at all are few. There are many who have only a small measure of the law. For them, few rules apply, but there is one rule that applies to anyone and everyone that meets the criteria of accountability. That is the commandment to acquire more knowledge. Certainly not at any cost, but we cannot be saved in ignorance. If we stop growing, we regress and exaltation becomes unreachable.

I am curious to read what the rest of you say on this one.

- Dragon


- Dragon
Re: They that are Without the Law [message #325 is a reply to message #320] Mon, 02 May 2011 21:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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A3. Sin is defined as knowingly acting against the will of God.

I agree, but would make the following change:

Sin is defined as knowingly and willingly acting against the will of God.

This is a very important distinction because without will we have no agency and sin requires agency. People forced to do evil against their will are not "agents unto themselves" and have committed no sin.

Transgression is when we break the law without knowledge or will and therefore have not sinned against the law, only transgressed.

The knowledge required to sin is not just belief or cause to believe, as we have when someone tells us from the pulpit or we read it in the scriptures or hear the prophet tell us, it means real personal "knowledge". The prophet Alma taught this to the poor people on the hill Onidah:

Quote:
"And now, how much more cursed is he that knoweth the will of God and doeth it not, than he that only believeth, or only hath cause to believe, and falleth into transgression?" - Alma 32:19


~ Seeker
Re: They that are Without the Law [message #328 is a reply to message #320] Tue, 03 May 2011 19:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Amonhi is currently offline  Amonhi
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If we assume the other group is exempt for the same reason as children, it would be those who never achieve the mental capacity to make decisions. They are therefore not accountable for their actions.


So we have here defined 2 groups that are not under the law, both of which are not accountable.

Quote:
The knowledge required to sin is not just belief or cause to believe, as we have when someone tells us from the pulpit or we read it in the scriptures or hear the prophet tell us, it means real personal "knowledge".

This is a very important point which begs the question, "When do we have knowledge?" I will start a new thread to discuss that question...

But what about a 3rd group... Those who have fulfilled the law... If the law is fulfilled, are we still under the law?

When was the law given? When will it be taken away?

Re: They that are Without the Law [message #330 is a reply to message #328] Tue, 03 May 2011 22:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon is currently offline  Dragon
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There are many laws which have been given, and others which exist whether they are given or not. Once a law is understood, it cannot be taken away without a higher law taking its place.

For example, whether someone understands the laws of electricity or not, they are there. The first thing you teach a child about electricity is the danger which exists. If they play with it, they could get seriously hurt. So the parent makes a rule about not sticking things in the outlet. This is not a law, but it is a rule. Eventually the child grows enough to use the outlet properly to power devices. (S)He can be more useful around the house and find greater fulfillment through the use of electronic devices. The original rule is not gone, just better understood. The superior knowledge of how to properly use an outlet makes the original rule seem inappropriate. But that rule has been better defined to say 'Don't plug random pointy objects into the wall socket.' The child could not have been taught the rule in such explicit detail before.

Yet limitations still exist on the child's understanding of electricity. (S)He doesn't have enough knowledge yet to change out a light fixture, or restore power after a breaker is blown. Rules still limit the child's access to electricity. Eventually those rules will be better understood as well, and privileges expanded.

Let's say the child goes to college and studies freshman level Electricity and Magnetism. (S)He will learn the basic equations which govern electricity and many of the uses we have for it in our world. A couple years later they take Junior level Electromagnetism and learn the course they took as a Freshman was only valid in a specific set of circumstances. Senior year they will take Electrodynamics and their prior course in Electromagnetism becomes the rules when nothing is changing. Perhaps they go on to a graduate degree to learn about quantum electricity or stellar magnetism, or some other specialized field dealing with electricity and magnetism.

Even with all that knowledge, the rule against sticking random pointy objects into a wall socket still applies. Everything they have learned about electricity still applies. It's true that their world of knowledge on the subject has increased and they can solve much more difficult problems. They understand when certain laws are superseded by higher laws and when they are not. But the basic equations they learned freshman year are still applicable in the scope in which they were presented. And if they stick a pair of metal scissors into a live outlet, the same thing will happen as when they were 2. The laws still apply, they are just better understood and occasionally overshadowed by higher laws.

Even God is subject to laws. Despite having achieved exaltation, He follows the laws and principles which He teaches to those who will listen. He has not caused the laws to pass away, He still follows them. As we all must follow those laws which govern the sphere in which we exist or suffer the consequences of violating those laws.

- Dragon


- Dragon
Re: They that are Without the Law [message #331 is a reply to message #330] Wed, 04 May 2011 18:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Amonhi is currently offline  Amonhi
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For the most part I agree with you in concept, but not in terminology.

Sticking scissors into an outlet could be a bad idea. But if you know what you are doing, you might be using the scissors to accomplish some desired result.

NOTE: While making these comments, "The Law" is not referring to the laws of men which are given from birth to death without regard to situations or persons and with no end or fulfillment. This is in regard to God's laws which are given as needed and removed when fulfilled.

Natural consequences are the natural results of actions, good or bad. If we do not understand the natural consequences, we often require a temporary law or rule.

Laws have punishments associated with them as an enforcement. Rules do not.

Laws are designed to prevent people from experiencing negative natural consequences or to protect others. Such laws are not natural and are attached to unnatural punishments, (2 Nephi 9:25).

If we progress to become a self governing God, then all laws will be removed, but the natural consequences will continue apply. As Gods, we are just able to work with the natural consequences to accomplish the desired results.

Our eternal inheritance is not determined by how we live Unnatural/Lower laws, (unless you are in the Telestial Kingdom which is the only group judged by their works D&C 76:111 according to the law, Alma 42:23).

Quote:
For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator." - Gal. 3:18-19


The law was given because of transgression and will remain until "the seed should come to whom the promise was made". The law can be fulfilled so that it is no longer needed.

Does the law have any effect on the promise, C&E? No
The promise was made to Abraham and all of his seed, (not "Seeds" as if some get the promise and some do not). 430 years after the promise was made the Law of Moses was given including the 10 commandments. Can this law nullify the promise made to Abraham such that the promise has no effect? Certainly not!
Quote:
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise." - Gal. 3:16-18

Quote:
Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Quote:
Christ hath redeemed us from the bcurse of the law" - Gal. 3:13

Quote:
"Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." - Gal. 3:24-25


God does not follow thee laws which he gives to man just as a parent does not follow the laws given to children.

Child:
Don't hit
Don't touch the matches
Don't put things in electrical outlets


Parent:
I can spank you
I can use the matches
I can put things into the electrical outlets

Mankind in General
Don't kill the innocent
Don't Lie
Pray to No Gods but Me (Father)
Don't Judge Others
Don't take Vengeance

God:
Utterly Destroy (even the babies)
I will deceive the prophet (Ezekiel 14:9)
Praying to Christ is OK (3Ne. 19:22-23)
I am the judge of all men
Vengeance is Mine!

At some point we must know when to kill and when not to kill, or we cannot become Gods.

All laws are fulfilled and void by love.
Quote:
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. - Romans 13:10


Quote:
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? bGod forbid. - Romans 6:14-15 (See also 14-18


Paul had gotten out from under the law,
Quote:
For we know that the commandment is spiritual; but when I was under the law, I was yet carnal, sold under sin. - JST Romans 7:14


Why are most people still currently under the law?
Quote:
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. - Gal. 5:18

The fruits of the spirit are LOVE... which fulfills the law.

[Updated on: Wed, 04 May 2011 18:24]

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Re: They that are Without the Law [message #332 is a reply to message #331] Wed, 04 May 2011 18:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dragon is currently offline  Dragon
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From your quotes, it is clear you are talking about the Law of Moses specifically. Many of the New Testament writings were spent trying to convince the Jews who were also Christians that their fellow Christians, who were not Jews, did not have to follow the Law of Moses. At the time of Paul's epistles, and at the time of Jesus, the Law of Moses was the religious law of the Jews as well as the legal law of Jerusalem in so far as the Romans allowed the leaders to administer it. The most notable exception being the requirement of Roman approval before executing any accused criminal.

Now we know that the Law of Moses was fulfilled by Christ, as He was the one who gave the law to begin with. Why did He give it? because the Israelites refused to follow Moses up the mountain to commune with God. They had been in Egypt so long, they expected God to behave like the Egyptian gods. They wanted one designated priest to commune with God and tell everyone what He said. God's original intent was to meet with all Israel face to face. What evidence do we have of Moses' religious preparation prior to seeing the burning bush? But the Israelites refused and God, in His wrath, gave them the lower law known as the law of Moses.

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus taught the higher laws, which supersedes the law of Moses. Where the law of Moses was based on exact justice, measuring out an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, the higher law of God is based on love and forgiveness. It is based on patience and tolerance.

Getting back to your original question about the Law of Moses, this is the governing law of the Terrestrial Kingdom. In order to remain on Earth during the Millennium, a person must only obey the 10 commandments. It will be a time when all Telestial beings will rest for a season so the Terrestrial beings can learn to become Celestial Beings. Yet I stray once more from the point. The Law of Moses applies to Telestial beings attempting to become Terrestrial. When someone becomes a Terrestrial being, and begins working towards becoming Celestial, the Law of Moses is of no more effect. Instead, the Law of Christ must apply.

Your original quote was from the Book of Mormon. Can you provide evidence as to which law Mormon was referring to in his epistle?


- Dragon
Re: They that are Without the Law [message #333 is a reply to message #332] Thu, 05 May 2011 14:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Your original quote was from the Book of Mormon. Can you provide evidence as to which law Mormon was referring to in his epistle?

Yes, he was refering to the lower law, the preparatory law, the law of Moses, the carnal law, the preparatory gospel, the Levitical law, etc... This lower law is the same from Adam to present. It is the only law that includes repentance, baptism forgiveness, atonement, Aaronic/Levitical priesthood, learning from ministering Angels (Instead of from God Directly), oh, and the law of carnal commandments (10 commandments+++...)

No other law includes these things. So if we are talking about repentance or baptism, we are talking about the lower law or Law of Moses.

Quote:
"For behold that all little children are alive in Christ, and also all they that are without the law. For the power of redemption cometh on all them that have no law; wherefore, he that is not condemned, or he that is under no condemnation, cannot repent; and unto such baptism availeth nothing--" - Moroni 8:22


The words "Repent" and "baptism" are specific to Gods lower law. We don't repent from breaking the law of the land except when that law agrees with Gods lower law. Ann Frank did not need to repent for hiding from the Nazi soldiers. The Nazi soldiers obeyed the law of the land but needed to repent for breaking God's lower law.

The lower law & Aaronic priesthood and doctrines focuses on salvation from... sin and creating just men/women. The higher law or Mel. priesthood focuses on Perfecting the Just & Exaltation.

Quote:
Now we know that the Law of Moses was fulfilled by Christ, as He was the one who gave the law to begin with. Why did He give it?

You are right, he gave it because they would not enter into Gods presence, just like you said, D&C 84:23-27. But what was given then and was called the Laws of Moses has been given to us today as part of the "restoration of all things". It is administered by the Levitical/Aaronic priesthood, teaches the lower law and the preparatory gospel including faith, repentance, baptism, forgiveness and the law of carnal commandments, (10 commandments plus every other rule/law given, ie. dance when you are 14, date at 16 1 set of earrings, etc...)

Quote:
Now this Moses plainly taught to the children of Israel in the wilderness, and sought diligently to sanctify his people that they might behold the face of God;

But they hardened their hearts and could not endure his presence; therefore, the Lord in his wrath, for his anger was kindled against them, swore that they should not enter into his rest while in the wilderness, which rest is the fulness of his glory.

Therefore, he took Moses out of their midst, and the Holy Priesthood also;

And the lesser priesthood continued, which priesthood holdeth the key of the ministering of angels and the preparatory gospel;

Which gospel is the gospel of repentance and of baptism, and the remission of sins, and the law of carnal commandments, which the Lord in his wrath caused to continue with the house of Aaron among the children of Israel until John, whom God raised up, being filled with the Holy Ghost from his mother's womb.


Notice the following:


  • The reason for giving the Law of Moses was, as you said, because the people would not enter into the presence of God.
  • The church members today have, for the most part, still not entered into God's presence.
  • We live the same law discribed in D&C 84 that was attributed to those who are cursed for not entering into God's presence.
  • This is a PREPARATORY law (& Gospel) given to prepare people to enter into God's presence.
  • This preparatory law and gospel includes faith, repentance, baptism, and the law of Carnal commandments.
  • The system is easy, break the carnal commandments and you need to repent. Breaking these commandments is a sin.
  • The surprising conclusion is, No Lower/preparatory law = No Law of Carnal Commandments to break = no sin to repent from, no need to be saved from the punishment of a broken law.


Quote:
Now, how could a man repent except he should sin? How could he sin if there was no law? How could there be a law save there was a punishment? - Alma 42:17


Paul told the Hebrews, let's move on from the principles of the lower law and it's gospel because once we have "been enlightened" these principles, (like repentance), do not apply because we can't be renewed to repentance.

Quote:
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

And this will we do, if God permit.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God fresh, and put him to an open shame. - Heb. 6:1-6


"It is impossible for those who were once enlightened" to be "renewed again unto repentance" because repentance is part of the preparatory Gospel and law which, for these people, was fulfilled. They were prepared and cannot be prepared again or further. They prepared and performed and entered God's presence. Once in God's presence, the lower law which was to prepare us for his presence is fulfilled and no longer useful.

Although he isn't saying it directly, he is referring to a doctrine which says after fulfilling the lower law, Christ cannot atone for us and we must suffer death and hell for our own actions, D&C 132:26-27. And so repentance, forgiveness, baptism, etc become meaningless.

The principle/experience of "Love" keeps you in line rather than the fear of punishment associated with the lower law. That fear of punishment is/was required to keep the carnal man inline.

Quote:
Now, if there was no law given--if a man murdered he should die--would he be afraid he would die if he should murder?

And also, if there was no law given against sin men would not be afraid to sin. - Alma 42:19-20


In the end, there is a "Final Repentance" after which no further repentance is required nor will it do you any good. At this point, the law has been fulfilled and you are no longer under the law. You have progressed beyond the law and have returned to the presence of God like Adam/Eve were originally except that you have gained knowledge and become like God knowing Good From Evil for yourself. Thus the plan of redemption is fulfilled.
Re: They that are Without the Law [message #334 is a reply to message #333] Fri, 06 May 2011 11:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Seeker is currently offline  Seeker
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Amonhi, your thoughts are interesting, if not enlightening. However, I have a problem with this statement.
Quote:
In the end, there is a "Final Repentance" after which no further repentance is required nor will it do you any good. At this point, the law has been fulfilled and you are no longer under the law.


I thought that repentance was an eternal principle, at least for this life and until we are so perfect we do not break the laws of God. But Then you say, you can't break the laws of God anymore because they have been removed and no longer apply to you because you are able to govern yourself by correct principles instead of being governed by laws and punishments.

But, Dragon was saying there are "natural laws" (Consequences) that Govern even God. You say natural consequences don't govern God, but God takes action knowing the natural consequences to achieve his desires. Sounds like a cause & effect rather than laws and punishments.)

So then you say we get to a point where we are no longer under the law and so without a law to break we have no sin and need no repentance. But even God repents and corrects any bad actions as God grows and learns. Isn't that repentance? Just because I have my C&E doesn't mean I don't accidentally hurt others or fail to be the best person I am striving to be. How does that mean I don't need a law or to repent??


~ Seeker
Re: They that are Without the Law [message #336 is a reply to message #334] Fri, 06 May 2011 18:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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But even God repents and corrects any bad actions as God grows and learns. Isn't that repentance?


Contrary to what is commonly taught, Repentance has nothing to do with a change in action like is commonly taught. It has nothing to do with a step-by-step process walking you from realization to repair. This is a lower law, manual ordinance or symbolic representation of what a truly repentant person might do.

Real repentance is a change in heart and in nature. Such a change only happens once. (If you were to change your heart and nature twice, you would be a natural man, then a godly man and then a natural man again.)

When you focus on the actions you are misled. 2 people can do the same action and 1 is blessed for being good and the other cursed for being evil. 2 people can pray and one is blessed and the other cursed even though they outwardly did the same thing.

Quote:
For behold, if a man being evil giveth a gift, he doeth it grudgingly; wherefore it is counted unto him the same as if he had retained the gift; wherefore he is counted evil before God.

And likewise also is it counted evil unto a man, if he shall pray and not with real intent of heart; yea, and it profiteth him nothing, for God receiveth none such.

Wherefore, a man being evil cannot do that which is good; neither will he give a good gift.


An evil man will change his actions but not his heart. And although he appears outwardly to do good, he is evil still. He may have gone through all the steps of any repentant process and yet he has not repented. (No matter how many "I'm sorries", "Hail Mary's, Oh Our Father's or visits to the Bishop he does...)

A good man has repented meaning to change his heart from hate to love and his nature from the natural man to the Godly man. When this change is truly complete, he cannot go back without denying the Holy Ghost which testified and taught and changed the man from carnal to Godly. It is not easy to go back to carnal.

Quote:
Just because I have my C&E doesn't mean I don't accidentally hurt others or fail to be the best person I am striving to be.

If you are accidentally hurting others then you are not intentionally or flippantly hurting others. Your heart is good.

Just like an evil man can do good things and it is counted as evil, so to will a good man accidentally do bad things and it is counted as good.
Quote:
How does that mean I don't need a law or to repent??

Laws are for those who can't govern themselves. Those who have truly/fully repented or changed do not need outer laws. They have the "higher law" written in their hearts.

The 10 commandments were outwardly written on cold, hard, unfeeling and unchanging stone. They don't account for situations and weaknesses. They have no love in them. And so it is with the entire lower law.

The "Higher law" is not really a law. It is the ability to self govern in peace and equality in the absence of law. The moment you write it down it becomes the lower law and an attempt to govern others who are incapable of governing themselves. The only reason to create a law or a rule is because you have determined that people cannot govern themselves without it. The more laws a people requires, the further they are from the Higher law.

Any law or rule that you can read or write is a lower law. The more general the law/rule, the close to the Higher law it is. The more specific the law/rule, the lower the law it is and the more the law is designed for the weakest Saint.

The Higher law is a way of being and living. It is a nature. It is written on the warm, soft, feeling and changing heart. It accounts for situations and weaknesses. It IS Love.

Quote:
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. - Heb 10:16-18

Quote:
Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart I have written my law, fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings. - 2 Nephi 8:7


One of the most simplified expressions of the Higher Law is taught by Christ as recorded in the bible:
Quote:
Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

This is the first and great commandment.

And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. - Matt. 22:36-40


In this explanation Christ gave no specific rules or details regarding how you go about loving God and men. It lacks the full expression of the higher law in that it only alludes to being Love and don't grasp the full extent of self government, but again if you can write it, it isn't the higher law.

Writing may point to the higher law just as my comments here can only point to it while still unable to capture the full essence of the higher law. It is a spiritual law. And as with all spiritual things, it must be Revealed by the Holy Ghost to be understood.





Re: They that are Without the Law [message #337 is a reply to message #336] Sat, 07 May 2011 07:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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I agree with what is being discussed here. When we come to earth, we are immediately immersed in the world which Satan has created, full of laws-dos and don'ts. Our minds become trained in the way of thinking that laws rule the universe. Even the Church is laden with laws, and rightfully so, as it deals with men of the world. We are used to rules with consequences, good or bad. We even receive our CE by obedience to principles which we have learned to strictly adhere to.
However, in eternity, I am aware of only two rules or laws which determine everything else: 1. Agency-freedom to be or not be. 2. Love, which "compels" all dominion. In other words, God's dominion flows unto him without compulsory means.In fact, we exercised our agency to come here and become subjected to the physical laws.
Repentance. Does God repent? Yes, if we can agree to define repentance as progression. God is constantly progressing as he helps us and all creation to progress. However I am not in a position to know whether he repents of transgressions. I think we can all agree that he is without sin.


Bishop
Re: They that are Without the Law [message #340 is a reply to message #337] Sat, 07 May 2011 14:21 Go to previous message
Amonhi is currently offline  Amonhi
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Quote:
Does God repent? Yes, if we can agree to define repentance as progression. God is constantly progressing as he helps us and all creation to progress. However I am not in a position to know whether he repents of transgressions. I think we can all agree that he is without sin.

We can see why Dragon continually points out the need for definitions. When 2 people use the same word to mean different things we generally disagree. Here repentance is used to mean progress, change direction or actions. With my definition it mean to have a change in heart regardless of actions.

Under the definition above, a good man can progress, change direction or actions (repent) and yet have not sinned or transgressed, only progressed.

Quote:
Now, how could a man repent except he should sin? How could he sin if there was no law? How could there be a law save there was a punishment? - Alma 42:17


Here Alma is saying repentance requires sin. God doesn't sin and so requires no repentance. But God does progress.

One reason we have so many definitions for the same words is because it is the nature of words. We see a list of possible definitions for nearly every word in any dictionary.

Quote:
"And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.- Jonah 3:10"


Here we see God repenting of evil.

We must look past the words to the symbols they are pointing at. The meaning, concepts and principles. Does God repent? Yes and no. Do they who are without the law repent? Yes and no. Depending on your definition of repent. But the eternal concepts and principles behind the definitions do not change.

Who are "They that are without law"?

  1. Children who have not been given the law
  2. Anyone who has not been given the law
  3. Anyone who has mastered the principles behind the law thus fulfilling the law




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