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Home » Calling and Election Made Sure » The Fastest Way to Make Your Calling and Election Sure » The Fastest Way to Make Your Calling and Election Sure (Speaking from experience...)
The Fastest Way to Make Your Calling and Election Sure [message #3449] Thu, 25 June 2015 10:34 Go to next message
Amonhi is currently offline  Amonhi
Messages: 216
Registered: June 2010
Location: Las Vegas, NV.
Senior Member
If you want to make your calling and Election sure, I highly recommend purchasing the book, "The Fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ - Making Your Calling and Election Sure" by Elliaison - HERE. I personally know many people who have received their C&E as a result of reading and applying the information in that book. To quote the summary,
Quote:
This book discusses in detail and in length the "Fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ" and includes the following concepts: The Gospel of Jesus Christ as taught by Jesus Christ, The Holy Ghost, Rock from which We Cannot Fall, Calling and Election Made Sure: Qualifications, Church accepted examples detailing; How they received it, Where they received it, Why and much more.
Using LDS accepted references we have shown as best we can, step by step and principle by principle the progression process, qualifications, and doctrines as well as the mode and manor by which these blessings are and have been received. We have provided several personal account examples from Scripture, Conference Talks and from Latter-day Church History showing in some cases the exact moment in which a person received the promise known as their "Calling & election Made Sure". We do so to attempt to illustrate the most common way this blessing is received, how it really happens and who is present. (Purchase includes 2 books, one for you and one to share.)


I am starting this thread by the request of Elliaison quoting a discussion I previously had. For brevity I will post my comments and answers to questions. My views do not necessarily reflect the views of Elliaison, however, they make a good starting point for discussion as I have answered and responded to almost every question that I have come across in relation to C&E. Feel free to discuss, question and even challenge any of the information I have presented. The goal is to bring all who will come to the Church of the firstborn.

I wanted to create this thread to discuss the mode and manner by which we can expect to gain our Calling and Election made sure, the Fastest way I know to get the blessing for yourself and the criteria you must meet to receive the blessing.

I expect that anyone who has studied the subject as theories regarding how it happens which might include secret temple ceremonies, introductions to Christ and the like. But, I would like to bring this down to earth and show you what I learned after receiving the promise for myself. Kind of a hindsight view of what really matters.

I will submit myself to be crucified as it were, for the benefit of those who who might gain the blessing for themselves through my sacrifice. (Nothing eternally lost, just pearls before swine, lol)

Studying and knowing about the doctrine of Calling & Election is like knowing and studying about the doctrine of baptism. Baptism requires very little information prior to accepting the ordinance. So much so is the case that an eight year old child is capable of receiving the ordinance and may yet spend much of its adult life studying and pondering the implications, meaning and experience of the ordinance. Such is the case with many of the ordinances in the church. And, such is the case with Calling & Election. We, (My wife and I), knew less about the topic than many of you do now when we first received it 11 years ago. And we know people who are well studied experts on the topic, (so they think), who have still not received it. Clearly knowledge about the topic has little bearing on whether we receive and accept the ordinance. So making it a gospel hobby is not a great use of anyone's time.

I would like to first express the most important information that I have regarding this topic.

The Fastest Way to get the Promise for Yourself:
It is so simple that nobody thinks of it, (You don't even have to wash in the river 7 times). However, we know many people who have received it this way... Here is how...

Set a date for when you will ask for it.
Prepare as you wish, (fast, study, pray for the spirit and angels to attend, put your name on the temple prayer roll, etc. even consider asking others to fast and pray for you).
On the date specified, in sincere prayer, open your heart completely to God. Trust in His judgment completely knowing that he is your Judge and not You.
Ask God the following questions:
1. Have I made my calling & Election sure? Wait for a response if you get a negative response, then ask...
2. May I have your promise, right now, that I will receive Exaltation & eternal Life? Wait for a response...
3. And only if you get a negative response ask the following...Who do I need to "become" to be worthy of the promise? Wait for a response...

That's it. (The Words are not that important, just guidelines...)

Few people ask for it in a way that they can receive the sealing promise or ratifying witness of the Holy Ghost. They ask for worthiness expecting that they aren't but will some day be. When the Holy Ghost, which is the testifier and Holy Spirit of Promise, testifies to you that you have the promise, then you've got it. He CAN NOT lie!
If you are still unsure, or want a reconfirmation, ask again as many times as you need.

The point of the questions is this...

Question 1: Clarification...
You may already have received the promise via a previous revelation and yet not have recognized it. I have come across this with 2 people who had received the promise but not recognized it because they were looking for the Prophet to call them to the temple. In fact, my wife received the promise a week before we received it together and she didn't recognize it. (I guess 3 people.) When we received the promise ourselves we couldn't believe it and had to study up on what just happened before we could fully embrace it. This first question is to ask if you already received it but didn't recognize it at the time. If you get a favorable response to this question, you don't need to ask further.

Question 2: Clarification...
You may not have already received the promise, but you might not have received the promise ONLY because you didn't ask for it...(You know, Ask and ye shall receive...) This is where you are asking for it now. Can I have your promise now? If you get a favorable response to this question, you don't need to ask further.

Question 3: Clarification...
In the event that you did not get a favorable response to the previous 2 questions, this question is because you don't presently qualify and you are asking for a personalized plan that you can follow to become qualified. My missionary friend who received his promise while on his mission asked this question during the evening around 7:00pm and had his promise and was visited by Christ before the night was over at about 1:00am.

Disclaimer: Results may vary. LOL

Let the discussion begin with that introduction...

[Updated on: Thu, 08 December 2016 10:30]

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Re: The Fastest Way to Make Your Calling and Election Sure [message #3450 is a reply to message #3449] Thu, 25 June 2015 10:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Amonhi is currently offline  Amonhi
Messages: 216
Registered: June 2010
Location: Las Vegas, NV.
Senior Member
I received some PMs with questions that I wanted to answer publicly but which the requester wanted to remain anonymous. Here are the questions and answers.

"anonymous"
I struggle with finding the balance between God's grace and my earning a blessing. I know ultimately we can't earn anything, but we must qualify. So, for example, if I were to do what you suggest in this post and ask the Lord if I have my C&E, without really doing anything other than to "prepare" to ask, if I felt that I have indeed made my calling & election sure, how or when did I qualify...in another life?


You might think of it like this... I want to live in heaven. In order for heaven to be heaven for me, I need to make sure that the environment around me is pleasant, friendly, peaceful, free, etc. So, if I let others into my heaven, I have to make sure they are not going to destroy my peace/heaven. They aren't going to make me a slave and they won't abuse me.

Before you can come to my heaven, you must "become" nice. You have to learn how to play well with the other residents of heaven. I have to make sure I am still in heaven after You come in. And I have to make sure that YOU are still in heaven after I come in.

This means that you must learn how to resolve conflict, interact and disagree in a pleasant and peaceful way. It means that you need to learn how to have freedom without taking freedom. Agency is HUGE, and your agency had better NOT trample on the agency of others. These are the things to focus on. It isn't about what you do or did, it is about who you are, how you interact with others. Are you love.

The nice thing is that you don't have to have become the ultimate example of perfection. You only need to have gained a portion of the glory of the Celestial kingdom. If you have gained even a portion, you will eventually gain the fullness.

Quote:
They who are of a celestial spirit shall receive the same body which was a natural body; even ye shall receive your bodies, and your glory shall be that glory by which your bodies are quickened.
Ye who are quickened by a portion of the celestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
And they who are quickened by a portion of the terrestrial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.
And also they who are quickened by a portion of the telestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness. - D&C 88:28-31


So, your work is to become a heavenly being. God's grace can't do that for you. No death or sacrifice can make you nice to be around. On the other hand, you have been so mean to host and others party guests and caused them so much misery that you don't deserve to come to the party. But God's grace is such that we can be invited to the party even though we were mean to the host and other party guests. (This was a very simplified expression not to be correct to the Nth degree, just to get the general idea across.)

"anonymous"
Is there something more involved in this ordinace other than the holy ghost telling you you have it?


Nope. The Holy Ghost can't lie. Just like getting any other testimony or revelation, you get a witness from God. I will provide some examples given in general conference of people receiving the promise, detailing exactly how they got it, where they were, who was there, etc.

As a side note: If you need it to be more difficult before you trust yourself, then it can be. We largely set our own criteria for the testing and trial we need to experience prior to receiving this promise. God already knows you and what you will do. Any additional testing is for our benefit to test ourselves. One man I know went through terrible trials and risked loosing his family to do what God had commanded of him. His name was dragged through the mud and he lost years of respect earned as a 3 time bishop. Never did anything wrong, but was judged as if he had. Years later the details of the events came out through natural consequences and he was proven to be prophetic and innocent, but the damage had been done. Anyway, that's what it took for him to know that he was committed at all costs. As soon as he knew for himself that he would do what was right at all costs, he got the promise. God already knew, but he didn't know for himself and had to prove it to himself before he could accept the promise. It is much easier just to let God be the judge and accept his call for what it is.

"anonymous"
If the answer to the first question was negative, why do you suggest we ask essentailly the same question again?


I added some clarification to my initial post explaining what the questions mean. I think that covers it.

"anonymous"
If it is this simple, how do you know that you are communing with the hosts of Heaven, and how do you know you are speaking with another member of the church of the firstborn? How can someone just simply ask and HAVE this when they have not entertained angels, and do not even know if they have been BF&HG?


Here is a secret. Members of the Church of the Firstborn can be active and they can be inactive and everywhere in between. Unfortunately you don't magically get all the answers when you receive the promise. You enter a new phase of learning. Answers come more quickly and if you seek it you can learn how to recognize and speak with angels. I know some who have their C&E and yet don't commune with the general assembly. There is a learning curve that all starts with the Holy Ghost. It is the key to everything. There are 2 books that are worth reading which answer some of these questions:

- The Fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ Making Your Calling and Election sure by Elliaison
- The Unspeakable Gift of the Holy Ghost by Elliaison

The first goes through in detail how we go from new members to receiving our calling and election made sure and the second covers various topics about the Holy Ghost one of the chapters talks about how we speak with angels via the Holy Ghost (Tongue of Angels). These books are not presently available to the public and I am petitioning Elliaison to make available some copies to some who already requested them. If you are interested, please PM me.

That being said, Speaking with angels is not a prerequisite to receiving the promise. Although without knowing it you will have already been visited and ministered to by unseen angels, but you might not have recognized them and because you didn't recognize them, you were not able to interact with them, so it was a one-way communication.

The BF&HG part is a requirement as you can't receive the promise except you have it sealed by the HG as the testifying witness, just as with all truth. Essentially, C&E is a revelation. It is revealed to you. Revelation always comes with the witness of the HG. This is essential. That is why learning to recognize, believe and accept the witness of the spirit is vital.
Re: The Fastest Way to Make Your Calling and Election Sure [message #3451 is a reply to message #3450] Thu, 25 June 2015 10:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Amonhi is currently offline  Amonhi
Messages: 216
Registered: June 2010
Location: Las Vegas, NV.
Senior Member
I promised some examples... I am going to quote from the book, "The Fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ - Making Your Calling and Election Sure" - by Elliaison

"Elliaison"
We have heard many of these theories. Most set requirements which are impossible to achieve in this life, or the next. When we consider the ramifications of the blessing we may determine that we are not and could never be qualified to receive it. We also determine that it is impossible for anyone we know to receive it. (We are very judgmental creatures.)

Satan has propagated such ideas in an attempt to prevent good people from obtaining these blessings. When people disqualify themselves, even God's promise will not give them the blessing because they refuse it.

The solution is to trust in God and the Holy Ghost that speaks for God. If the promise comes to you, do not deny it, but rather embrace it. Remember, It is a mockery of God to believe that we know better than Him when we are worthy. God knows what requirements we need to meet. If God finds us worthy by giving the promise, then we should not argue.

It is only for us to follow the spirit and learn by His hand until He gives us the promise. There are many who have received the promise and did not recognize it because it did not come in the way they expected. One such woman was told multiple times for weeks before she understood and recognized the promise. This brings us to the Mode and Method of receiving the promise. I have met many who have been given the promise but could not accept it. They could not believe or comprehend that they had just received their Calling and Election made sure. So, they didn't, but only because they did not know they had. And, the blessing is of no use if the person doesn't know they have it or if they refuse to accept it.

There is much speculation on the topic regarding how it really happens. Some such scenarios require that this blessing can only be received from the hand of the prophet in the temple, in the room known as "the Holy of Holies". Often times, as people discuss the ordinance, they speculate that the prophet introduces Christ to people who are ready. We would not presume to say that this blessing will NOT happen this way, as it is God who ultimately decides how and where this gift is given. What we will say is that in the majority of such sweet instances, these assumptions are far from accurate.

This brings us to the Grand Key upon which we will receive our Calling and Election made sure, that key is the Holy Ghost. We must first learn to recognize and rely on the Holy Ghost, realizing that the Holy Ghost is the messenger of truth and as God, the Holy Ghost CAN NOT lie. Once we realize this, and we learn from and follow its direction, we will begin to recognize that this spirit will make various promises. When the Holy Ghost promises a thing, it is called the "Witness of the Holy Spirit of Promise" or the "Holy Spirit of Promise". Because this spirit cannot lie, its promises are certain and sealed in heaven and approved by God. When this witness bears record to your soul that your place in heaven is sure, then you have received the promise of God that you have already met the criteria needed and will be exalted.

Sometimes, when this promise is given, some people will look at their own faults and judge themselves as unworthy of such a promise. They suppose they know better than God and so they set the requirements for this gift and blessing beyond their own reach. They refuse to be perfected in and through Christ and unknowingly they have rejected the atonement as they attempt to earn perfection by their own merits and works. This is an issue of Faith in God and a lack of their ability to trust or recognize his Spirit's still small voice.

Perhaps rather than dissecting the experience and thus taking away from the majesty and wonder that comes with it, I will provide examples which plainly answer in their simplicity all these questions. Once we understand how it happens we can begin to see this blessing being received by many throughout the scriptures and around us.

Rather than using our own words to provide the examples, we refer to the words of President Marion G. Romney, who said:

Quote:
"As I read the sacred records, I find recorded experiences of men in all dispensations who have had this more sure anchor to their souls, this peace in their hearts.

Lehi's grandson Enos so hungered after righteousness that he cried unto the Lord until "there came a voice unto [him], saying: Enos, thy sins are forgiven thee, and thou shalt be blessed." (Enos 1:5.) Years later Enos revealed the nature of this promised blessing when he wrote:
Quote:
"I soon go to the place of my rest, which is with my Redeemer; for I know that in him I shall rest. And I rejoice in the day when my mortal shall put on immortality, and shall stand before him; then shall I see his face with pleasure, and he will say unto me: Come unto me, ye blessed, there is a place prepared for you in the mansions of my Father." (Enos 1:27.)

To Alma the Lord said, Quote:
"Thou art my servant; and I covenant with thee that thou shalt have eternal life." (Mosiah 26:20.)

To His twelve Nephite disciples, the Master said:
Quote:
"What is it that ye desire of me, after that I am gone to the Father?
"And they all spake, save it were three, saying: We desire that after we have lived unto the age of man, that our ministry, wherein thou hast called us, may have an end, that we may speedily come unto thee in thy kingdom.
"And he said unto them: Blessed are ye because ye desired this thing of me; therefore, after that ye are seventy and two years old ye shall come unto me in my kingdom; and with me ye shall find rest." (3 Ne. 28:13.)

As Moroni labored in solitude abridging the Jaredite record, he received from the Lord this comforting assurance:
Quote:
"Thou hast been faithful; wherefore, thy garments shall be made clean. And because thou hast seen thy weakness thou shalt be made strong, even unto the sitting down in the place which I have prepared in the mansions of my Father." (Ether 12:37.)

Paul, in his second epistle to Timothy, wrote:
Quote:
"I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
"I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
"Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day." (2 Tim. 4:68.)

In this dispensation many have received like assurances. In the spring of 1839, while the Prophet Joseph and his associates were languishing in Liberty Jail, Heber C. Kimball, our president's grandfather, labored against great odds caring for the Saints and striving to free the brethren who were in jail. On the sixth of April he wrote:
Quote:
"My family having been gone about two months, during which time I heard nothing from them; our brethren being in prison; death and destruction following us everywhere we went; I felt very sorrowful and lonely. The following words came to mind, and the Spirit said unto me, 'write,' which I did by taking a piece of paper and writing on my knee as follows: ...
"Verily I say unto my servant Heber, thou art my son, in whom I am well pleased; for thou art careful to hearken to my words, and not transgress my law, nor rebel against my servant Joseph Smith, for thou hast a respect to the words of mine anointed, even from the least to the greatest of them; therefore" --listen to this-- "thy name is written in heaven, no more to be blotted out for ever." (Orson F. Whitney, Life of Heber C. Kimball, Bookcraft, 1975, p. 241; italics added.)

To the Prophet Joseph Smith the Lord said:
Quote:
"I am the Lord thy God, and will be with thee even unto the end of the world, and through all eternity; for verily I seal upon you your exaltation, and prepare a throne for you in the kingdom of my Father, with Abraham your father." (D&C 132:49; italics added.)

Now my beloved brethren, by way of summary and conclusion, I bear witness to the verity of these great truths. I know that the Spirit of Christ enlighteneth "every man that cometh into the world; and [that] the Spirit enlighteneth every man through the world, that hearkeneth to the voice of the Spirit." (D&C 84:46.)
I know that everyone who, following the whisperings of the Spirit, develops faith, is baptized, and receives the Holy Ghost through the laying on of hands by those having authority, may, by compliance with the teachings of the gospel, receive the gifts and the power of the Holy Ghost.

And I bear further witness that every such person who, having come this far, will follow the Prophet's admonition to "continue to humble himself before God, hungering and thirsting after righteousness, and living by every word of God" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 150), may obtain the more sure word of prophecy." - Marion G. Romney, "The Light of Christ," Ensign, May 1977, 43.


Each person has a different experience. The words are never the same, but the meanings are very clear. The places and situations vary wildly. President Romney selected these particular examples because none of these examples received the promise in the Temple, or by the hand of a man or even the Prophet.

He was speaking to the entire church in general conference.

These specific examples were selected because the majority of the membership will receive the blessing in the same way as these examples. They will receive it alone in the quite moments from directly from God through his still small voice known as the Holy Spirit of Promise. They will recognize it because they have built on the rock and have learned to know and trust the Holy Ghost as the voice of God, (D&C 64:3-4).

Christ did not appear to most of them at that instance, though he would certainly appear personally at some later time. There is in all these experiences only one thing in common. That is that the spirit witnessed thereby personally sealing the promise of exaltation to the soul of the person as a witness from God.

Re: The Fastest Way to Make Your Calling and Election Sure [message #3452 is a reply to message #3451] Thu, 25 June 2015 10:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Amonhi is currently offline  Amonhi
Messages: 216
Registered: June 2010
Location: Las Vegas, NV.
Senior Member
Someone asked me in a PM the following question:

"anonymous"
Why did you decide to take this approach on an internet forum if you have experienced these things for yourself?


I will quote from Elliaison's Introduction, then answer the question for myself:
"The Fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ - Section of the Introduction"

Do people really receive these blessings and talk about it?

YES! There are a significant number of members who have received these blessings. It is true that these people are not often open about their experiences while talking to large groups. For example, you will very rarely hear someone in a testimony meeting or talk that they have met the Christ. However, it is often said in shrouded words. Those who have "ears to hear" have heard. This is often the way that we have heard experienced shared in General Conferences. It is often said simply that a person "knows from personal experience" that Christ lives. True knowledge comes as a person meets the savior personally. This is explained well in Ether 3 after the Brother of Jared had seen the Lord himself.

"And because of the knowledge of this man he could not be kept from beholding within the veil; and he saw the finger of Jesus, which, when he saw, he fell with fear; for he knew that it was the finger of the Lord; and he had faith no longer, for he knew, nothing doubting.
Wherefore, having this perfect knowledge of God, he could not be kept from within the veil; therefore he saw Jesus; and he did minister unto him." - Ether 3:4-20

Although there are some occasions in which individuals have been told not to share there experiences, these are not the norm. Just as sharing your testimony of Jesus Christ only encourages faith and is required in missionary work, so to witnessing your personal experiences of Jesus Christ, angels, miracles and other blessings promotes faith and encourages others to rise up to greater plateaus. This is a major reason we read the scriptures. We are reading the experiences of others so we can learn with them and thereby rise up to also claim all the blessings of the righteous.

When we share our personal experiences by the power of the Holy Ghost, in the right circumstances with the right people, such witnesses become very powerful opportunities to encourage others to experience the same. And as the world prepares for the millennium, more individuals will receive the same blessings until it becomes as common as baptism is today. Just as people today wish to share there sacred conversions stories with others, a day will come when people will be able to safely share these sacred experiences without ridicule.

Why would anyone be ridiculed for sharing their uplifting personal testimony and experiences?

Satanic forces have continued to attempt to prevent such information from being shared, taught and becoming accepted by the mainstream. These efforts aim to prevent the critical mass that will bring the coming millennium. As a result, a lie has been created and propagated which is summarized in the following statement:

"If anyone tells you they have seen the Savior or had their calling and election made sure or any other such blessing, you can know they are lying because no one would share such sacred things and they are told not to share them."

This lie is particularly potent as it accomplishes 2 things.

1. It shuts the mouth of those who have had theses experiences so they do not share - The half truth presented in this lie is that these are sacred things and very personal. As such we have no desire to cast such pearls before the swine of the world. On the other hand, many of us have a strong desire and often even a commandment to share our witness and experiences for the benefit of others. This lie thereby causes others to condemn and ridicule those who would share and so it shuts the mouth of those who have experienced first hand and are thereby are qualified to assist others in accomplishing the same. This only benefits the dark forces who desire to keep such information contained.

2. It shuts the ears of the listeners who would have benefited In many instances, those who have had such experiences take courage from the example of Joseph Smith and others who in the face of such threatening opposition still shared his own personal experiences. In the event that the lie does not achieve it's primary goal by shutting the mouths of the witnesses, it turns to those listening and attempts to shut their ears. This is accomplished easily as those who accept this lie automatically discredit anyone who makes such claims without any further examination or consideration.

As a testament to the effectiveness of this lie, you only have to consider how much the general membership has heard or understands about the subjects discussed in this book. This is amazing when we consider the many scriptures and talks that address these subjects.

Other lies that have been propagated focus on your unworthiness to experience the same for yourself. Remember that anything that does not encourage you achieve your potential is not of God. Because God is not a respecter of persons, every blessing God has to give is available to you.


My wife & I commanded to share our experience with our family. The results of which were that 5 members of our families have received their C&E. We were later ordained to bring as many as will come to the Church of the Firstborn. This is our current calling. And the greatest arrow in my quiver is my own knowledge, testimony and experience. It would be a fools errand to not use my own witness, testimony and experience.

I expect some will mock, some will be confused and some will be touched by the spirit and hear the call for themselves. I surrender myself and my experiences as an offering for the benefit of those who will hear the spirit and answer the call. I know they are here, and I know they have heard.

I do not profess to be infallible and I do not encourage others to believe what I say. I do encourage others to believe the Holy Ghost and if He tells them something is true then I suggest they believe that.

Thank you for asking.
Amonhi
Re: The Fastest Way to Make Your Calling and Election Sure [message #3453 is a reply to message #3452] Thu, 25 June 2015 10:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Amonhi is currently offline  Amonhi
Messages: 216
Registered: June 2010
Location: Las Vegas, NV.
Senior Member
"Original_Intent"
I'll let Amonhi clarify, but he did say that the calling of the 144,000 was to bring people to the church of the Firstborn. Which is NOT to say that everyone that has that calling is among the 144,000. We have a bad habit of saying if every A is B, then every B is also A. Non sequitor.


That is a very valid point. Thanks.

"reese"
Amonhi, if you were ordained to bring as many as will come to the church of the firstborn, does this make you one of the 144,000?

Yes, for he time being. It isn't as glamours as it sounds. More like serving a mission. Everyone thinks the missionaries are some type of super human, but then you become one and your still a Joe and people curse you and you do your best.

"reese"
And does this mean that you were ordained by the hands of an angel?

Yep, but not so much with hands. Hands aren't needed in the spiritual church. It was more like Nephi in Helaman 10.

"reese"
When someone does come to the church of the firstborn, is the "ordiance" to do so receiving their C&E? Is there ever a physical ordinance, or is it always 'spiritual' in this church?

C&E is the first ordinance in the church of the firstborn. It is spiritual.

It is possible to receive a physical ordinance which could range from someone giving someone else a blessing or a full on ceremony, but these are still at best signposts and not the actual ordinance.
Re: The Fastest Way to Make Your Calling and Election Sure [message #3454 is a reply to message #3453] Thu, 25 June 2015 10:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Amonhi is currently offline  Amonhi
Messages: 216
Registered: June 2010
Location: Las Vegas, NV.
Senior Member
"Original_Intent"
There are questions, though. Decades ago, I had an experience where I was repenting, and one night I had the most clear and distinct dream of meeting and embracing the Savior, and Him saying "Thy sins are forgiven." I was on my knees, embracing Him, and the sense of both joy and pure love there are not words to do it justice. The memory of that has remained with me throughout my life.

Wow! Thank you sooo much for sharing! It is difficult to describe to someone else the feeling of deep unconditional love and acceptance one feels in his presence. It changes you. Thank you for sharing this very special experience, I am truly honored to have heard it.

"Original_Intent"
I guess I expected something a little more literal and - I hate to say it, but "profound". But maybe I am just one of those people that are making it harder than it is.
most do. We get so used to elaborate ordinances that we expect the greatest ones to be even bigger than the others. It is in it's simplicity a glorious experience.

If you wouldn't mind, I would like to use you as a second witness here to dispel a theory that is taught around the church. Some have said that the most powerful witness and experience you can have comes from the Holy Ghost. Having experienced the witness of the Holy Ghost and also been in the presence of Christ myself, I know for certain that all experiences with the Holy Ghost, and even angels, as wonderful as they have been, are like the light of stars when compared with the experience of meeting the Savior which is more akin to the Sun at noon day. Would you agree?

"Mark"
If they were part of the 144,000 they would have to be translated beings.

Not sure why we would have to be translated. There are some who are preaching in the spirit world to the spirits and some on earth and some who do both. The majority of our, (my wife and I), work has been to the living. By small, weak and simple means does the Lord cause the great things to happen.
"Mark"
Once again I am uncomfortable with someone coming on an internet forum saying they are part of this glorious missionary force of hunters (Jeremiah 16:16) which is to happen at the time of the redemption of Zion prior to the second coming of the Lord. Lets just say I have a healthy dose of skepticism here. I will leave it at that.

Understandably, but you know, eventually someone has to do the job. If it wasn't me, you would be skeptical of some other smuck. I am not asking you to trust me on this. I am asking you to go to and trust the Lord. 3 simple questions, between you and God. And as Jospeh Smith learned, God will give "liberally, and upbraideth not".

The Lord can't come to the world until the prophecies are fulfilled and there are enough people to receive him. First to individuals, then small groups, then larger groups and finally to the world.

Now you pointed out Jeremiah 16:16. The fisher dangles the bait and waits for fish to smell it and come to it. The hunter is more aggressive and doesn't even use bait. Would you say I was more like a fisher or a hunter?

"katmr"
My understanding is that a second annointing is the ordinance for having your calling and election made sure and it is an ordinance performed in the temple, given only to married couples.

This is another physical symbol of a spiritual ordinance. Once again, it must be ratified by the spirit to have any effect after this life.

Also, consider the quote by President Romney in General Conference (Elliaison quote) given earlier. President Romney didn't mince words. Here you have a member of the First Presidency telling the church as a whole in GC how it happens and how to expect it, what to look for. He gave similar GC talks 3 times. There are more examples we can draw from as well.

Do you think President Romney was mislead? Or misleading the church?
Re: The Fastest Way to Make Your Calling and Election Sure [message #3455 is a reply to message #3454] Thu, 25 June 2015 10:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Amonhi is currently offline  Amonhi
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"Rand"
Actually, I have been down this road a ways. No fear, no doubt, but my experience has been very different than what is recorded here. It feels unhealthy to me. I agree with Mark. I will continue on my path and not open myself up to influences that will deter me from my journey. God has spoken to me in ways unmistakeable, and they do not square with what I am seeing. I would say what has been shared is similar to scripture, not "constant", and certainly not "consistent".

Your experience is very valuable. Could you elaborate? (Or perhaps you have been forbin to discuss?)
I have not been forbidden to discuss. And I do not mean to take away from the incredible experience you have had. Just to point out that it as with ANY ordinance, must be sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise to have "efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead".

The gift of the Holy Ghost can be given by the laying on of hands and commanding, "I say unto you, RECEIVE THE HOLY GHOST!" Not much symbolism there to trip on. It just says, receive it already! In a similar manor you might not have accepted it another way, but it doesn't mean the Gift of the Holy Ghost can't be received without the laying on of hands. The physical points to the spiritual but the spiritual IS the point and can be received without the physical. If it were not so, then all of the references in conference, scripture etc. would be wrong.

Here is another example of the Prophet declaring the same blessing on a group of people who were assembled,
"D&C 88:1-5"
Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you who have assembled yourselves together to receive his will concerning you:

Behold, this is pleasing unto your Lord, and the angels rejoice over you; the alms of your prayers have come up into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth, and are recorded in the book of the names of the sanctified, even them of the celestial world.

Wherefore, I now send upon you another Comforter, even upon you my friends, that it may abide in your hearts, even the Holy Spirit of promise; which other Comforter is the same that I promised unto my disciples, as is recorded in the testimony of John.

This Comforter is the promise which I give unto you of eternal life, even the glory of the celestial kingdom;

Which glory is that of the church of the Firstborn, even of God, the holiest of all, through Jesus Christ his Son--
Do you think he was wrong?

Would loved to have showed up to that meeting, am I right!?! But then again, if you were there, unless the the Holy Spirit of promise sealed it, it is of no effect in this life or the next. Hence the reason for understanding physical vs. Spiritual ordinances. This does not mean that a person cannot receive the spiritual at the time of the physical. Especially when it is so direct and specific, Like the receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost.

We can receive all the Blessings of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob, the Sealing power to bind & loose, curse & bless, power over life and death, Godhood and every other blessing God has for us directly from God, with or without a physical symbol/ordinance.

Do you see what I am saying?
Re: The Fastest Way to Make Your Calling and Election Sure [message #3456 is a reply to message #3455] Thu, 25 June 2015 10:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Amonhi is currently offline  Amonhi
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"Rand"
...Actually, I have been down this road a ways...

Here is another thought more on the urked side of things. The third question is all about what do I need to be to have the blessing?
You are saying that there is nothing A PERSON can do or become and no point in asking God because worthy persons are damned in their progression until another mortal judges them and recommends them to be considered for further blessing. God can and does act for himself. He hasn't given away his authority to act for himself to the point that He can't do his own work.

God spoke and the world was created. How much easier would it be for God to speak and have a name written in the Book of Life, or to speak and give any blessing he desires including the Sealing power like he did with Nephi, (Hel. 10)

Just some things to consider...
Re: The Fastest Way to Make Your Calling and Election Sure [message #3457 is a reply to message #3456] Thu, 25 June 2015 10:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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"reese"
Is it possible that we are denying these things from ourselves because we just won't believe it because of the easiness of the way?

We tend to believe the spirit when it tells us the Book of Mormon is true or some other doctrine, why not on this one? Why not get a witness of your own standing before God? If you can't trust the same spirit that got you into the church, then we have more to be concerned about than this simple doctrine... (Right Rand?) - Sorry to single you out dude. I know where your coming from and am just trying to calm the water...

"reese"
Did the Lord really let the children of Israel die because they would not just look up at a staff and serpent? That to me is almost unbelievable. Just look at something and be healed. And yet some refused to do it. It was just too simple.


Well said, excellent points...

"LukeAir2008"
To have your Calling and Election made sure is to receive the Second Comforter - to see the face of Christ - and to be told that you will inherit Eternal Life.

The Comforter is the Gift of the Holy Ghost which all members are entitied to receive after baptism into the Church of Jesus Christ.

Two very different things.

Amonhi, have you seen the face of Jesus Christ and did he tell you that you will inherit Eternal Life?

Yes. But it was 2 months after I received the promise. I balled in his arms like a baby. He healed me. One of the many precious experiences of my life.

Do you think that Romney was wrong and that Heber C. Kimball didn't receive the promise because it didn't come the way you expected it? (He didn't see the Savior, he said, "Spirit said unto me".) Is the spirit going around lying and deceiving good honest people like Kimball and President Romney?

Do you think the Spirit can lie? Or can't be trusted? How can people believe it as an investigator to the church but later, after following it be told that it is faulty. I don't think investigators have any real experience with the spirit that somehow makes it more reliable than those who supposedly have been given the gift of the Holy Ghost.

"reese"
Is it possible for someone to have sacrificed enough and proven enough and yet not know it and thus their calling and election could come as a surprise to them?

Yes, it is possible. Thus the first 2 questions. As stated before, my missionary companion prayed to know what he needed to do to receive this blessing. He received a very specific answer that was for him. I was blessed to see and hear the angel that delivered the message. Later that night we were sleeping. He woke up being smuthered by a demon of sorts. (That doesn't happen to everyone by the way...so don't be afraid...but be prepared.) He raised his hand to the square and cast the evil spirit out in the name of Jesus Christ. Immediately the room lit, and Christ appeared near the foot of his bed and he received some blessings which included his C&E. I slept soundly through this part. For people who did not already qualified, (questions 1 & 2), he was the fastest I ever heard of to go from question 3 to got it.

However as stated by Gideon and Gruden, we may also have a way to go. The Goal of the 3rd question is to get personal and individual guidance so that you are not wandering haphazardly without a solid direction. Like I said, this is the Fastest way to get you from wherever you are right now to where you need to be to receive this blessing. It is the least painful with the fewest trials/tests/lessons.

I know a man who spent his whole life seeking it, but was not prepared until 2 weeks before he died at which time he received it. He didn't use the 3 questions as suggested, but if he had, I don't think he would have gotten it much sooner.

It really comes down to you and the Lord. Work out your salvation and exaltation with Him.
Re: The Fastest Way to Make Your Calling and Election Sure [message #3458 is a reply to message #3457] Thu, 25 June 2015 10:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Amonhi is currently offline  Amonhi
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"patriotsaint"
I appreciate this thread. ... I too have the hope that, if I persevere, these blessings are not out of my reach.

This is my main message! Thank you for stating this.

Also, so many of you have expressed appreciation for my time, thoughts and presentation. (I read all the posts and greatly appreciated them.) I am happy to be in your service. This is why I share, it is what makes any illusion of personal damage I might receive worth it.

On a side note, I am presently running out of time here, so I will not be able to stay much longer. I am sure I will be back when I can... When I have more time.

But I want to reiterate that you don't need me. I am only another symbol pointing my finger to heaven. You have everything you need already. And you have a great forum with many on the same path you are on. I recommend starting a thread in the Heavenly Group area where you can openly discuss your experiences and offer encouragement to each other, (if it isn't already created). I know via PM that some here have already received the promise for themselves. This is a new beginning. Everything becomes new. Read the scriptures from this new point of view and you will see insights that only apply to you. Stay close to the spirit and it will bring you to Christ and Christ will bring you to the Father.

For those of you who requested the Elliaison books I recommended, I will PM you when I get more information back. If you haven't requested them and would like to, Send me a PM.
Re: The Fastest Way to Make Your Calling and Election Sure [message #3462 is a reply to message #3458] Thu, 25 June 2015 11:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Amonhi is currently offline  Amonhi
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One more final point to add to the discussion before I feel satisfied...

Someone asked, "Is receiving your calling and election made sure a requirement going to the Celestial Kingdom?"

This is an excellent and VERY important question to ask.

D&C 76:50-53 tells us what we must to do qualify to be resurrected with the Just in the first resurrection. The Final qualification we must meet is that we are "Sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise". This means that we are sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise to our exaltation.

Once we have met the criteria listed, particularly being sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise, the very next verse says,
Quote:
53 And who overcome by faith, and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true.
54 They are they who are the church of the Firstborn. - D&C 76

In verses 54-70 we see a list of all the blessings promised those who are sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise. Some of those blessings are:
Quote:
54 They are they who are the church of the Firstborn.
...
62 These shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever.
...
68 These are they whose names are written in heaven, where God and Christ are the judge of all.
...
70 These are they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical.

Now, Baptism is the "gate" by which we join the physical Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. This is a physical church. It is the mediator between the World/Babylon and the Spiritual Church known as the Church of the Firstborn. The Church of the Firstborn also has a "Gate" by which we enter.

Calling & Election is the end of the path that started with baptism, but it is also the "gate" by which we join the spiritual Church of the Firstborn. It is like baptism for the Physical Church in that receiving your Calling and Election made sure is the Joining Ordinance for the Spiritual Church.

The name, "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints", reflect who's church it is. The church is Jesus Christ's and the Latter-day Saint's. not all members of this church will make it to the Celestial Kingdom.
So too the name of the Church of the Firstborn reflects who the church members are. It is called "The Church of the Firstborn" because all members are firstborn sons and daughters of God who all have an equal inheritance and standing with the Firstborn (Christ). They are all considered Firstborn sons and daughters of God.

In other words, all members of the Church of the Firstborn are guaranteed, via God's promise through the testifying power of the Holy Spirit of Promise, that they will receive the firstborn's inheritance equally with Christ who was the Firstborn. This is so much the case that there is no longer a distinction in the name/title that separates Jesus from the other members of the church. Jesus is included with all the other members of the church under the title/name "Firstborn".

Just as baptism places your name on the records of the physical church, so too receiving your Calling and Election made sure places your names on the records of heaven in the "Book of Life".

Just as we can receive the comforter after we are baptized into the physical church, we can receive the Second Comforter when we are sealed into the spiritual church.

Being a member of the Church of the Firstborn is required to have the blessings listed in D&C 76:54-70 including Celestial glory and dwelling with God and Christ forever. And because being a member of the Church of the Firstborn happens by receiving your Calling and Election made sure, we can say that this ordinance is required for Celestial Glory.

Immediately following the vision of who qualifies for the first resurrection with the just and the Celestial Glory, Joseph Smith begins to talk about those who qualify for the Terrestrial Kingdom. Notice the very first thing he tells us about who goes to the Terrestrial world:
Quote:
71 And again, we saw the terrestrial world, and behold and lo, these are they who are of the terrestrial, whose glory differs from that of the church of the Firstborn who have received the fulness of the Father, even as that of the moon differs from the sun in the firmament.

If you have not become a member of the Church of the Firstborn through receiving your calling and election made sure, the highest kingdom you can obtain is the Terrestrial Kingdom.

It is my fervent prayer that you will be touched in your heart and that the spirit will work in you to bring about the change of heart and that you will follow the Holy Ghost as the voice of God back into His presence. I know that if you do, you will receive the Holy Spirit of Promise while will seal upon you the promise of eternal life.

In the name of my Lord, Savior and Dear Friend Jesus Christ, Amen.

[Updated on: Thu, 25 June 2015 12:51]

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Re: The Fastest Way to Make Your Calling and Election Sure [message #3463 is a reply to message #3462] Thu, 25 June 2015 12:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bishop is currently offline  bishop
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I have really enjoyed this thread. I believe that Amonhi's point is to open up our thinking to our own potential-that we can each receive our CE and the Second Comforter. This is by far the biggest hurdle to any important accomplishment, whether physical or spiritual-faith that we can receive it. I suppose that I must cut to the quick and say that I am writing to be another witness to that fact, from personal experience also. I have come to understand that one of the great messages/themes of the Book of Mormon is to challenge us to receive our CE and the Second Comforter and to testify that we CAN receive it. I know that CE and Second Comforter are not the same, but for the purpose of illustrating my point, please allow me to use them synonymously as they are so closely related and intertwined in the BoM.

Nephi received it at a very young age and so did his brother Jacob:
2 Nephi 11:" 2 And now I, Nephi, write more of the words of Isaiah, for my soul delighteth in his words. For I will liken his words unto my people, and I will send them forth unto all my children, for he verily saw my Redeemer, even as I have seen him.

3 And my brother, Jacob, also has seen him as I have seen him; wherefore, I will send their words forth unto my children to prove unto them that my words are true. Wherefore, by the words of three, God hath said, I will establish my word. Nevertheless, God sendeth more witnesses, and he proveth all his words."

As expressed in an earlier post, President Romney pointed out that Enos, Jacob's son received it. It turns out that the book of Enos is a testimony of how a prophet's son received his CE.

Alma the elder received his CE:
Mosiah 26: " 20 Thou art my servant; and I covenant with thee that thou shalt have eternal life; and thou shalt serve me and go forth in my name, and shalt gather together my sheep."

As a point of conjecture, I believe that Alma the younger received his CE when the angel appeared unto him the second time in Alma 8:15
" 15 Blessed art thou, Alma; therefore, lift up thy head and rejoice, for thou hast great cause to rejoice; for thou hast been faithful in keeping the commandments of God from the time which thou receivedst thy first message from him. Behold, I am he that delivered it unto you."

Likewise a conjecture that Nephi, the son of Helaman, received his CE when God gave him the sealing power in Helaman 10:5:
" 5 And now, because thou hast done this with such unwearyingness, behold, I will bless thee forever; and I will make thee mighty in word and in deed, in faith and in works; yea, even that all things shall be done unto thee according to thy word, for thou shalt not ask that which is contrary to my will."

Mormon saw the Savior when he was only fifteen:
Mormon 1: "15. And I, being fifteen years of age and being somewhat of a sober mind, therefore I was visited of the Lord, and tasted and knew of the goodness of Jesus."

Of course, the classic story of the Brother of Jared when he receives the Second Comforter is found in Ether 3. I only include Moroni's summary of the incident:
"19 And because of the knowledge of this man he could not be kept from beholding within the veil; and he saw the finger of Jesus, which, when he saw, he fell with fear; for he knew that it was the finger of the Lord; and he had faith no longer, for he knew, nothing doubting.

20 Wherefore, having this perfect knowledge of God, he could not be kept from within the veil; therefore he saw Jesus; and he did minister unto him."

Moroni goes on to prophecy concerning the day when the Book of Ether should be brought forth to us. I take this as a personal challenge from the Lord through Moroni, in the Book of Ether: Ether 4: 7-19. I will only quote Ether 4:7 to be as brief as possible:
" 7 And in that day that they shall exercise faith in me, saith the Lord, even as the brother of Jared did, that they may become sanctified in me, then will I manifest unto them the things which the brother of Jared saw, even to the unfolding unto them all my revelations, saith Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are."

So we are to exercise faith and strive to receive the same revelations that the Brother of Jared received, which assuredly includes receiving the Second Comforter.

Emer, a Jaredite king saw the Savior in his day:
Ether 9: " 22 And after he had anointed Coriantum to reign in his stead he lived four years, and he saw peace in the land; yea, and he even saw the Son of Righteousness, and did rejoice and glory in his day; and he died in peace."

In Ether 12, Moroni testifies that many saw Christ before he came in the flesh:
" 19 And there were many whose faith was so exceedingly strong, even before Christ came, who could not be kept from within the veil, but truly saw with their eyes the things which they had beheld with an eye of faith, and they were glad."

Moroni was one who practiced what he preached:
Ether 12: " 38 And now I, Moroni, bid farewell unto the Gentiles, yea, and also unto my brethren whom I love, until we shall meet before the judgment-seat of Christ, where all men shall know that my garments are not spotted with your blood.

39 And then shall ye know that I have seen Jesus, and that he hath talked with me face to face, and that he told me in plain humility, even as a man telleth another in mine own language, concerning these things;"

So my point is that the Book of Mormon is all about how to receive one's CE and the Second Comforter. This is why the prophets and apostles today preach until they're blue in the face that we must study the scriptures-especially the Book of Mormon; because it will teach us how to come unto Christ [Second Comforter]. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has the purpose of bringing all men unto Christ [receive the Second Comforter]. The temple endowment shows the steps we must take to penetrate the veil and enter into the presence of Christ [Second Comforter]. The biggest hurdle to receiving this blessing is our own unbelief [aka lack of faith]. So I join in with others to testify that we are "they" to whom the Book of Mormon was written and it admonishes us to exercise our faith to receive our CE and the Second Comforter so that we can dwell in his presence now and be prepared for his coming. I hope that we can all have the faith to "inquire of the Lord" concerning these things and to not write ourselves off for some future ambiguous date yet to be determined. Age and experience were not a factor in the lives of Nephi, Jacob, and Mormon. But faith was the determinant. So please listen to the Spirit and don't cave to your natural fears. The Lord will come to a people prepared to dwell in his presence-why not each of us? As someone mentioned in an earlier post, there are many who have received these blessings in our day, and there will be many, many more, why not you and I?



Bishop
Re: The Fastest Way to Make Your Calling and Election Sure [message #3464 is a reply to message #3463] Thu, 25 June 2015 12:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bishop is currently offline  bishop
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I hope you don't mistake my enthusiasm for pride. It's just that all my adult life, over decades, I thought like many others, that in order to receive CE, I had to go thru an Abrahamic trial. I read the experiences of Abraham being sacrificed to pagan gods, or Isaac allowing himself to be sacrificed, or Job remaining faithful in spite of the most unthinkable trial in which his own wife counseled him to "curse God and die." I reasoned that only after these horrific trials did they receive their CE. After going thru that trial that I had been expecting and learning that I would be obedient no matter what, I perceived that the trial was for my own benefit-to know for myself that I would be faithful. I perceived that God already knew who I was and how faithful I was. Then I met others who had not been so tried and who had received CE. I have often wondered if I couldn't have received my CE many years before if I had considered that it was a possibility. Then, as I studied the BoM further, I came to understand that perhaps we don't have to be sorely tried before receiving this blessing. Perhaps we can be like Mormon, who saw the Savior at age 15; or Nephi and Jacob who received it while still in their youth... Perhaps, as we draw closer to the Second Coming and enter the Millenium, we will find that this blessing is handed down from parents to children, just as a testimony of the gospel is done now. My previous post was meant to encourage others to not get caught in the trap that I was in of thinking they have to go thru a major trial to receive CE. You will still have all the trials you can handle for the rest of your life. But perhaps it is as simple as what Amonhi said to do: pray about it and see what the Lord tells you. My post was to illustrate that a true seeker can find in the BoM a handbook, a guidebook, with graphic illustrations of how we can receive our CE and the Second Comforter.
As I stated before, the biggest hurdle is to allow oneself to believe that he/she can receive CE. Opening one's eyes to this possibility is key. Most people I know do not even consider this as conceivable for themselves, perhaps for an apostle, but not for a "normal member" of the Church.


Bishop
Re: The Fastest Way to Make Your Calling and Election Sure [message #3465 is a reply to message #3464] Thu, 25 June 2015 12:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bishop is currently offline  bishop
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This post and my last two posts were copied from the LDS Freedom Forum site.So were most of Amonhi's posts above. At my request, Amonhi copied and pasted his posts from LDS Freedom Forum. I also copied and pasted my posts here. In that site, I am known as "Lee." I felt a need to place this information on this site where it is much more freely accepted by open-hearted and open-minded people and where it is much easier to find in a more clear and concise manner:

This discussion is very stimulating; I am sincerely enjoying the many reactions to Amonhi's introduction of the topic. I do not question anybody's sincerity on their posts. Each person is discussing what he/she genuinely believes from his/her personal knowledge and experience. I have learned from these many posts and thank you for your thoughtful input. I'd like to ask a question, perhaps a little negative [sorry about that], to provoke some more thought. The question is: Why do we, as a Church, teach that all men must come unto Christ and we labor diligently to bring them unto Christ and then when they do come unto Christ, in a very literal sense, we oftentimes roundly condemn them? This is a pattern in this forum and has been a pattern that I have observed in the Church for years. I know that fear that this person who claims CE is being deceived is one big reason they are condemned. This may be a valid concern, but must not be a fear spawned by a lack of faith-we should have faith that it is factually possible for the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as taught in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its scriptures, to lead us into the very presence of the Savior. I honestly believe all of those who have claimed, in this discussion, to have personally experienced the Savior's love in his very presence and/or have received a sure knowledge by the Holy Spirit of Promise that they will be exalted [CE]. I don't doubt that they have experienced what they say they have, and that, like Paul and Joseph Smith expressed, what other people say will not change the facts.

To further my previous reflection from the Book of Mormon that we are in a time when we are challenged to seek our CE, I refer you to two twentieth century prophets:

In our hymnal, Bruce R, McConkie strategically placed two notes, two challenges if you will accept them as such, for us to seek to receive our CE. Hymn # 21, verse 4:"Then heed the words of truth and light, That flow from fountains pure. Yea, keep His law with all thy might Till thine election's sure, Till thou shalt hear the holy voice Assure eternal reign, While joy and cheer attend the choice, As one who shall obtain." Hymn 134, verse 4: "I believe in Christ; he stands supreme! From him I'll gain my fondest dream; And while I strive through grief and pain, His voice is heard: 'Ye shall obtain.' I believe in Christ; so come what may, With him I'll stand in that great day When on this earth he comes again To rule among the sons of men."
Clearly, this is a specific call for us to rise to the level of faith to receive our calling and election made sure.

In Marion G. Romney's 1977 talk entitled "The Light of Christ," he challenges all of those present [general conference priesthood meeting] to receive the Holy Ghost in their daily lives and to further seek to receive their calling and election made sure. He closes with the following thought:"I know that everyone who, following the whisperings of the Spirit, develops faith, is baptized, and receives the Holy Ghost through the laying on of hands by those having authority, may, by compliance with the teachings of the gospel, receive the gifts and the power of the Holy Ghost. And I bear further witness that every such person who, having come this far, will follow the Prophet's admonition to 'continue to humble himself before God, hungering and thirsting after righteousness, and living by every word of God' (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 150), may obtain the more sure word of prophecy [CE].'"

I earnestly hope that [no matter what our level of knowledge or experience] we each come to a place of faith, wherein we individually can embrace the thought that it truly is possible for the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as taught today in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, to lead us, through personal revelation [as mentioned in so many posts], back into the Savior's presence.


Bishop

[Updated on: Thu, 25 June 2015 13:35]

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Re: The Fastest Way to Make Your Calling and Election Sure [message #3472 is a reply to message #3449] Thu, 23 July 2015 09:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BuildingZion is currently offline  BuildingZion
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Question One is "Have I made my calling & Election sure?"
If God's anything like me, he would answer, "No, I did".

My point is that the question assumes I can make my C&E sure (by the strength of my own puny arm).
I'm wondering if a better way to ask it would be, "Father, has my calling and election been made sure?"

BTW, thanks for this thread. I'll be setting a date.


Jesus said:
"I will not spare ANY that remain in Babylon."
So... why are we still here?
Re: The Fastest Way to Make Your Calling and Election Sure [message #3473 is a reply to message #3472] Thu, 23 July 2015 11:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Amonhi is currently offline  Amonhi
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BuildingZion,

Welcome to the forum! I like your version of the question better.

Please let us know how it goes, as much as you can/feel comfortable doing.

Peace,
Amonhi
Re: The Fastest Way to Make Your Calling and Election Sure [message #3475 is a reply to message #3449] Thu, 06 August 2015 23:58 Go to previous message
kenh is currently offline  kenh
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Thanks to all who posted. The BoM is so very important to this process. I agree with Bishop. The Prophet Joseph Smith remarked that it was the most correct book on earth and by abiding by its precepts that one could draw nearer to God than any other book. One cannot draw nearer to God that in the bosom of Jesus knowing that He lives beyond doubt. The only two purposes of the BoM, as Bishop stated, are to come to KNOW Christ face to face and receive one's C&E made sure. The divine invitation is to everyone. These sacred things are being said more and more. The time to hasten the work really means to hasten the saints to become the Elect of God.

[Updated on: Thu, 06 August 2015 23:58]

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